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RE: Science was once a child of the church.
June 9, 2014 at 5:01 pm
(June 9, 2014 at 4:50 pm)mickiel Wrote: (June 9, 2014 at 4:46 pm)Tonus Wrote: No, I think science is as subject to human error and corruption as anything else. But it has the advantage of using a method that can help us to find and eliminate that corruption and continue to develop our knowledge and understanding of the world and the universe around us.
There is no advantage in science, it will not escape the same results as any group of humans in history has shown.
(June 9, 2014 at 3:41 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: So you think children precede their parents? Because, if not, your claim that science was once a child of the church is completely devoid of meaning. And if so, you're an idiot.
If you can admit it was a stupid claim to make, you can get on with your life a wiser man. We've all said things we didn't really think through, there's no shame in it. Around here, being able to admit when you're wrong does wonders for one's credibility.
The Church can't have birthed something that existed before it did. Why on earth would you scream something so profoundly stupid?
It birthed 17 different new sciences and their founding fathers, whose names I have listed, being able to see that may do wonders for you're fault finding needs.
Nope science itself is perfect,you have to prove stuff and nothing is taken on faith.
ALL PRAISE THE ONE TRUE GOD ZALGO
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RE: Science was once a child of the church.
June 9, 2014 at 5:01 pm
(June 9, 2014 at 4:50 pm)mickiel Wrote: (June 9, 2014 at 4:46 pm)Tonus Wrote: No, I think science is as subject to human error and corruption as anything else. But it has the advantage of using a method that can help us to find and eliminate that corruption and continue to develop our knowledge and understanding of the world and the universe around us.
There is no advantage in science, it will not escape the same results as any group of humans in history has shown.
(June 9, 2014 at 3:41 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: So you think children precede their parents? Because, if not, your claim that science was once a child of the church is completely devoid of meaning. And if so, you're an idiot.
If you can admit it was a stupid claim to make, you can get on with your life a wiser man. We've all said things we didn't really think through, there's no shame in it. Around here, being able to admit when you're wrong does wonders for one's credibility.
The Church can't have birthed something that existed before it did. Why on earth would you scream something so profoundly stupid?
It birthed 17 different new sciences and their founding fathers, whose names I have listed, being able to see that may do wonders for you're fault finding needs.
Science isn't a group.
Science is a discipline, a way of gaining knowledge.
THere are always those who will try to corrupt it or use it for nefarious purposes, just as there are those who have and will use religion the same way.
The difference is that science has helped humanity progress.
Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:
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RE: Science was once a child of the church.
June 9, 2014 at 5:02 pm
(This post was last modified: June 9, 2014 at 5:04 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(June 9, 2014 at 4:50 pm)mickiel Wrote: There is no advantage in science, it will not escape the same results as any group of humans in history has shown.
Indeed. Modern science quite likely kept you from dying in your infancy, and that most certainly is of no advantage whatsoever to the rest of menkind.
The world certainly would be better off if science didn't butt its head into the scene and kept you from going to your grave.
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RE: Science was once a child of the church.
June 9, 2014 at 5:14 pm
(This post was last modified: June 9, 2014 at 5:16 pm by mickiel.)
(June 9, 2014 at 5:01 pm)Beccs Wrote: (June 9, 2014 at 4:50 pm)mickiel Wrote: There is no advantage in science, it will not escape the same results as any group of humans in history has shown.
It birthed 17 different new sciences and their founding fathers, whose names I have listed, being able to see that may do wonders for you're fault finding needs.
Science isn't a group.
Science is a discipline, a way of gaining knowledge.
THere are always those who will try to corrupt it or use it for nefarious purposes, just as there are those who have and will use religion the same way.
The difference is that science has helped humanity progress.
No, that is not a difference; religion has helped humanity progress.
(June 9, 2014 at 5:02 pm)Chuck Wrote: (June 9, 2014 at 4:50 pm)mickiel Wrote: There is no advantage in science, it will not escape the same results as any group of humans in history has shown.
Indeed. Modern science quite likely kept you from dying in your infancy, and that most certainly is of no advantage whatsoever to the rest of menkind.
The world certainly would be better off if science didn't butt its head into the scene and kept you from going to your grave.
So who helped ancient humans get born? Who helped humans 50,000 years ago in birth? 20,000 years ago? Was it science?
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RE: Science was once a child of the church.
June 9, 2014 at 5:21 pm
(June 9, 2014 at 5:14 pm)mickiel Wrote: (June 9, 2014 at 5:01 pm)Beccs Wrote: Science isn't a group.
Science is a discipline, a way of gaining knowledge.
THere are always those who will try to corrupt it or use it for nefarious purposes, just as there are those who have and will use religion the same way.
The difference is that science has helped humanity progress.
No, that is not a difference; religion has helped humanity progress.
(June 9, 2014 at 5:02 pm)Chuck Wrote: Indeed. Modern science quite likely kept you from dying in your infancy, and that most certainly is of no advantage whatsoever to the rest of menkind.
The world certainly would be better off if science didn't butt its head into the scene and kept you from going to your grave.
So who helped ancient humans get born? Who helped humans 50,000 years ago in birth? 20,000 years ago? Was it science?
Not as much as science has. In fact, as has already been stated, the church is reponsible for retarding human advancement for more than 800 years.
Even now, religion is doing that in many places around the world.
Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:
"You did WHAT? With WHO? WHERE???"
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RE: Science was once a child of the church.
June 9, 2014 at 5:32 pm
(June 9, 2014 at 5:14 pm)mickiel Wrote: No, that is not a difference; religion has helped humanity progress.
Peer review is the difference. A respect for factual things, is the difference. Oh, and the very important fact that science needs to provide results that eventually become applicable to real life, and cant just be fobbed off with "you'll be rewarded when you die," is the difference.
Those things are important. Science is results based, the greatest of its discoveries changed the world in measurable, demonstrable ways. For all its claims to divine knowledge, the church has never produced a single discovery or invention.
Science is fact based too, and has the peer review process to keep itself honest. If you look at how the church works, you see just how little care they have for facts; at one point the catholics had this concept of limbo, which they don't anymore, so evidently that was just made up. They literally attached a whole other cosmic realm to their ideology, and then pruned it off, without ever gaining any new information, because the books they're working from never change. That's emblematic of the problem religion has, that science doesn't, where they all just... make things up, based on nothing more than convenience, and then discard them on the same basis. It's so telling.
Now, you can shrug these off as not important, but if that's all you're going to do, without saying why, then... meh.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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RE: Science was once a child of the church.
June 9, 2014 at 5:50 pm
(June 9, 2014 at 5:32 pm)Esquilax Wrote: (June 9, 2014 at 5:14 pm)mickiel Wrote: No, that is not a difference; religion has helped humanity progress.
Peer review is the difference. A respect for factual things, is the difference. Oh, and the very important fact that science needs to provide results that eventually become applicable to real life, and cant just be fobbed off with "you'll be rewarded when you die," is the difference.
Those things are important. Science is results based, the greatest of its discoveries changed the world in measurable, demonstrable ways. For all its claims to divine knowledge, the church has never produced a single discovery or invention.
Science is fact based too, and has the peer review process to keep itself honest. If you look at how the church works, you see just how little care they have for facts; at one point the catholics had this concept of limbo, which they don't anymore, so evidently that was just made up. They literally attached a whole other cosmic realm to their ideology, and then pruned it off, without ever gaining any new information, because the books they're working from never change. That's emblematic of the problem religion has, that science doesn't, where they all just... make things up, based on nothing more than convenience, and then discard them on the same basis. It's so telling.
Now, you can shrug these off as not important, but if that's all you're going to do, without saying why, then... meh.
The church produced 17 founding fathers of 17 different branches of new sciences. I have listed them.
And hey, these 17 famous companies;
http://www.businessinsider.com/17-big-co...012-1?op=1
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RE: Science was once a child of the church.
June 9, 2014 at 5:58 pm
(June 9, 2014 at 5:50 pm)mickiel Wrote: The church produced 17 founding fathers of 17 different branches of new sciences. I have listed them.
No, you listed 17 scientific minds that also happened to be religious. That's not the same thing; what you're doing here is the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. After this, therefore because of this: "They were religious before they were scientists, therefore the fact that they were scientists is because they were religious." Well, they were also longtime poopers, probably before they were even religious; does that mean that poop produced seventeen branches of science?
Quote:And hey, these 17 famous companies;
http://www.businessinsider.com/17-big-co...012-1?op=1
Just replace "science" with "business acumen" in the above argument.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
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RE: Science was once a child of the church.
June 9, 2014 at 6:08 pm
(June 9, 2014 at 5:58 pm)Esquilax Wrote: (June 9, 2014 at 5:50 pm)mickiel Wrote: The church produced 17 founding fathers of 17 different branches of new sciences. I have listed them.
No, you listed 17 scientific minds that also happened to be religious. That's not the same thing; what you're doing here is the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. After this, therefore because of this: "They were religious before they were scientists, therefore the fact that they were scientists is because they were religious." Well, they were also longtime poopers, probably before they were even religious; does that mean that poop produced seventeen branches of science?
Quote:And hey, these 17 famous companies;
http://www.businessinsider.com/17-big-co...012-1?op=1
Just replace "science" with "business acumen" in the above argument.
No, no, no; how are you going to separate a mans philosophy from his work? Come come now, the church birthed Charles Bell - the first to map the brain
Robert Boyle- founded modern chemistry
John Dalton - Atomic Theory
John Fleming - Electronics
Issac Newton-- Laws of Grtavity
All Christian, many ministers, some theologians. You cannot change these birth certificates and remove their religion or the churches influence over them.
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RE: Science was once a child of the church.
June 9, 2014 at 6:38 pm
Why do we get all the crazies?
Those people were born in places where most people were indoctrinated into Christianity, so it's no wonder they were Christian themselves.
Others browned top be born in Japan... not Christian... or India... or Arabia (where Arab numerals come from)...
Here's something else for your "from Christianity" series: castles; bourgeoisie, classical music.
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