@Thor - that's adificult question. I would say God allows the opportunity for all those things to happen and directs a causal chain. Can and has he healed someone where science couldn't? yes. Can he save people for dying? I suppose. Does he bring people together? yes. I would have to say yes I believe he can do those specific things. If you're asking if I believe in spontaneous miracles like a worldwide flood or dividing a river to walk across it, no I don't think God does those miracles. He might have in the past but no longer.

(June 2, 2010 at 9:22 am)Eilonnwy Wrote: I wouldn't want to be in a heaven with the Mormons anyway.

You wouldn't be;they each get their very own planet. (really)

It's not the Mormons who bother me,it's those fucking born againies and their interminbable "PRAISE THE LORD!" and all those stuffwitted suicide bombers fucking everything in sight:The promise is 72 virgins, there is no mention of gender.

padriac Wrote:The promise is 72 virgins, there is no mention of gender.

Does it mention 'human'? 72 virgin olives seems like a lot to give up one's life for....

(June 4, 2010 at 4:03 am)Saerules Wrote:

padriac Wrote:The promise is 72 virgins, there is no mention of gender.

Does it mention 'human'? 72 virgin olives seems like a lot to give up one's life for....

Arf! )

It really doesn't matter in the slightest...truely guys ...why worry??

(June 3, 2010 at 9:52 pm)padraic Wrote: You wouldn't be;they each get their very own planet. (really)

It's not the Mormons who bother me,it's those fucking born againies and their interminbable "PRAISE THE LORD!" and all those stuffwitted suicide bombers fucking everything in sight:The promise is 72 virgins, there is no mention of gender.

Yeah, I think you missed the South Park reference there. -_^

(June 4, 2010 at 8:19 am)Eilonnwy Wrote:

(June 3, 2010 at 9:52 pm)padraic Wrote: You wouldn't be;they each get their very own planet. (really)

It's not the Mormons who bother me,it's those fucking born againies and their interminbable "PRAISE THE LORD!" and all those stuffwitted suicide bombers fucking everything in sight:The promise is 72 virgins, there is no mention of gender.

Yeah, I think you missed the South Park reference there.

Me and my bloke watched South Park Mormon episode the other nite. I told him thats what Mormons really believe but he didnt believe me! He said no-one would take that seriously and that I was winding him up

I love kids...their skepticism is so pure!!

(June 3, 2010 at 8:54 pm)tackattack Wrote: @Thor - that's adificult question. I would say God allows the opportunity for all those things to happen and directs a causal chain. Can and has he healed someone where science couldn't? yes. Can he save people for dying? I suppose. Does he bring people together? yes. I would have to say yes I believe he can do those specific things. If you're asking if I believe in spontaneous miracles like a worldwide flood or dividing a river to walk across it, no I don't think God does those miracles. He might have in the past but no longer.

Well, if you believe he does (and has) healed people, saved people from dying, etc... then obviously he has the ability to step in if he so desires. In which case, I would ask why he allows hurricanes to devestate communities (he could make the hurricane harmless if he wanted)? I would ask why he does nothing and allows children to suffer and die with cancer (or any other malady)? I would ask why he allows babies to be born with horrible birth defects? Why does he do nothing while an earthquake destroys a city and kills thousands?

If your deity is capable of saving a child's life and does nothing, I would argue that your deity is pretty horrible. After all, what would you think of a parent who did nothing and watched their child die when they could have prevented it?

I don't think I have the perspective to correctly answer every instance. I'll give an example of what I think and give it my best shot. We'll continue your father analogy:
1- Father sets rules to follow (laws of nature, morality, forgiveness) and provides a home withing those rules. Child learns about his enviornment through trial and error (volcanoes go boom, nuclear waste is bad, killing is bad, breaking the rules makes life harder). When we're talking enviornemtal issues (natural disasters, mortality, etc.) we're still haven't become masters of our enviornment. In fact, we're quite toddler like in our destructive tendencies toward our enviornment. You're assuming that God see's death as a bad thing. From a transcendant perspective with eternity as your lifespan, that doesn't follow that mortal death is any different than a snake shedding it's first skin.
2-A premature death from an omniscient perspective could be preventative. Maybe they'll grow up to be a hitler, and we only need one or 2 of those throughout history to learn from that. Perhaps a lifetime of suffering would be worse than a relatively short life. Perhaps the sheeddding of the mortal coil teaches others who are still alive to appreciate life more, to ease other's suffering, to provide for other's needs more actively.
3- Let's use that same scenario and work on the interactions between several billion of those children..Children by nature are learning to overcome their instinctual self-serving survival instincts to form communities. We learn things like empathy and develop social structure. We identify laws which develop the whole and punish crimes. We learn that there are consequences for self serving problems (like crackheads making babies that are addicted to crack, deformed, etc.) and develop into a more mature society.

I think a major point of contenction between atheism and theism is a willingness to accept there is more after we die. I'm hungry and I'm going to eat dinner now, more later.