(June 3, 2010 at 12:42 am)tackattack Wrote: I'm sure the jews would disagree with you on that Fr0d0, theocracies and ecclesiocracies are outdated but they were a intended as a definite type of government ( Israel, papacy, Byzantine empire I believe, etc). Religion I believe was misused in this way for the gain of control and power, which is the goals of some religions. I agree that religion should have no place in modern governments.
@paintpooper- We still wouldn't be on the same page with "Something created the big bang, and all matter came from somewhere. UNLESS that is "just how it is". ". as a theist I'd believe in the former and as an atheist you'd be on the latter. We'd have no way of determining which is the null characteristic of the universe. I have a lot of respect for atheism, they assume everything starts out as null or nothing and that's very effective when gauging materialistic things.

And I see no problem on if we have different views on that. That is not the big problem with religion. Ill say the big bang "just was" you say "something created it" I don't think we will ever know which is the truth or not, or that is really matters, but those ideals are our own and causes no rift.

I have a problem with fundie radicals, and Christians trying to push their religion on other people, if we can get past all the Adam and Eve, Muhammad, Joesph Smith, stuff then atheism and theism are not all that different we are both trying to find out what created our universe, but we each have a different preconceived notion, or we both have different hypothesis, we just need to find ways to test those, but I don't think we should hold our breath on that ever happening.
God hates gays... God is white..God hates blacks things like that sicken me and have no place in a civilized society.

Quote:1Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, 2just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus
(luke 1:1-3)

the bible itself claims its not from god. if i am misunderstanding anything plz any of my christian brothers clarify this to me as i never had a response for this question

Most claim that their so-called god "inspired" men to write it. Surely, you must be familiar with the concept?

(June 4, 2010 at 11:48 am)Minimalist Wrote: Most claim that their so-called god "inspired" men to write it. Surely, you must be familiar with the concept?

did you even read the verses i quoted?

Don't know exactly what you're getting at mo. Are you saying the bible says the opposite? Eyewitnesses of Jesus and his life and works are referenced. This is far from conclusive proof, and would indeed be illogical when applied to Gods nature as revealed in the bible. If you think there is no choice to believe then you deny God, as that's his purpose for mankind, laid out thoroughly throughout the bible.

(June 4, 2010 at 12:12 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Don't know exactly what you're getting at mo. Are you saying the bible says the opposite? Eyewitnesses of Jesus and his life and works are referenced. This is far from conclusive proof, and would indeed be illogical when applied to Gods nature as revealed in the bible. If you think there is no choice to believe then you deny God, as that's his purpose for mankind, laid out thoroughly throughout the bible.

i understand from the verses that luke is saying why he wrote the bible(many have written stories so he saw it was good for him to write it also) and that he didnt wrote it from inspiration by the holly spirit but from what he heard from eyewitnesses

(June 4, 2010 at 11:53 am)mo3taz3nbar Wrote:

(June 4, 2010 at 11:48 am)Minimalist Wrote: Most claim that their so-called god "inspired" men to write it. Surely, you must be familiar with the concept?

did you even read the verses i quoted?

A few of them and you are hardly the first to show up here sprinkling allah-dust and pretending that there is some great wisdom contained. I've never seen anything in the koran to distinguish it from the judeo-xtian drivel it was derived from.

Same shit...different bag.

Quote:A few of them and you are hardly the first to show up here sprinkling allah-dust and pretending that there is some great wisdom contained.

the reason is that not all muslims get to the stage thinking about everything from the atheist point of view i preffered to start searching and reasoning everything as an atheist and to search in different religions and make my choice away from what my parents religion is.
the second thing is we dont have a lot of atheists so most of muslims will have no knowledge about what do you guys think and you will find most of them making threads in religious forums specially in christian forums

Quote: I've never seen anything in the koran to distinguish it from the judeo-xtian drivel it was derived from.

i challenge you to open a thread about the quran and TO USE THE QURAN IN ANY CLAIMS YOU SAY and i will be happy to answer anything regarding this issue.

(June 4, 2010 at 12:25 pm)mo3taz3nbar Wrote: i understand from the verses that luke is saying why he wrote the bible(many have written stories so he saw it was good for him to write it also) and that he didnt wrote it from inspiration by the holly spirit but from what he heard from eyewitnesses

I see. Eyewitnesses of what tho'? God's direct action? there are no eyewitnesses to God, only of what is perceived to be the actions of God. We then discern if that can be trusted as truth. At every point here... the truth is open to interpretation: for or against, and that is the precise nature of God in not taking away the choice in belief.

Quote:I see. Eyewitnesses of what tho'? God's direct action? there are no eyewitnesses to God, only of what is perceived to be the actions of God. We then discern if that can be trusted as truth. At every point here... the truth is open to interpretation: for or against, and that is the precise nature of God in not taking away the choice in belief.

dont christians says that the bible was written by inspiration from the holly spirit?