Hello C4RM5. It isn't exactly the place for it but it is the first time I am meeting you.

I wonder if it ever occurred to you that you can keep your god belief without the bible? Above I read good arguments for rejecting the bible as any kind of evidence for anything. In your shoes I don't see any reason why you can't concede that and carry on in faith.

Seems to me that if any one decides to believe in God it will not because they stumbled upon the bible and were overwhelmed by its logic and authenticity. If you pray and genuinely feel in the presence of your God when you do, why should you give that up just because you can't justify your belief (to us at least) using the bible. It is your private experience which leads you to accept god belief, why not simply do so as an act of faith without any evidence? Certainly is your choice.

It will be seen as a mark of honesty if you admit as much.

(September 20, 2014 at 6:38 am)C4RM5 Wrote: I do noy reqlly know if they have been abducted by aliens, I know it is claimed to have happened I have just never meet anyone with these claims.
You can never truely understand what someone else has experienced, therefore I don't know whether they have or have not experienced an abduction. You have to agree it is hard to understand some ones expeřience without having the same experiences.

So how might we go about finding out whether such claims are true?

(September 19, 2014 at 2:55 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Why do the Biblical supernatural events become more believable when they are written in ancient texts, decades or more after the alleged events, by superstitious, tribal people, with way less understanding of the universe than we have, with no way to be verified?

As the Noah Cross character in Chinatown says, "'Course I'm respectable. I'm old. Politicians, ugly buildings, and whores all get respectable if they last long enough."

I guess the same principle is at work when it comes to the magical claims of religious folk . . . unless, of course, those claims come from people who don't belong to the "right" religion.

(September 20, 2014 at 9:16 am)whateverist Wrote: Hello C4RM5. It isn't exactly the place for it but it is the first time I am meeting you.

I wonder if it ever occurred to you that you can keep your god belief without the bible? Above I read good arguments for rejecting the bible as any kind of evidence for anything. In your shoes I don't see any reason why you can't concede that and carry on in faith.

Seems to me that if any one decides to believe in God it will not because they stumbled upon the bible and were overwhelmed by its logic and authenticity. If you pray and genuinely feel in the presence of your God when you do, why should you give that up just because you can't justify your belief (to us at least) using the bible. It is your private experience which leads you to accept god belief, why not simply do so as an act of faith without any evidence? Certainly is your choice.

It will be seen as a mark of honesty if you admit as much.

Nice to meet you

I don't believe I would be able to believe in God without understanding what I am believing in. The main reason for me being a Christian is hearing the Bible explained, the Bible (from your view) may not prove anything, but to me I habe learnt many valuable things. Though on saying that I think I would still be a Christian without a Bible, just not a good one.

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(September 20, 2014 at 9:29 am)Stimbo Wrote:

(September 20, 2014 at 6:38 am)C4RM5 Wrote: I do noy reqlly know if they have been abducted by aliens, I know it is claimed to have happened I have just never meet anyone with these claims.
You can never truely understand what someone else has experienced, therefore I don't know whether they have or have not experienced an abduction. You have to agree it is hard to understand some ones expeřience without having the same experiences.

So how might we go about finding out whether such claims are true?

Like I just said you can not really prove or disprove it as it is personal experience.

(September 20, 2014 at 6:38 am)C4RM5 Wrote: I do noy reqlly know if they have been abducted by aliens, I know it is claimed to have happened I have just never meet anyone with these claims.
You can never truely understand what someone else has experienced, therefore I don't know whether they have or have not experienced an abduction. You have to agree it is hard to understand some ones expeřience without having the same experiences.

Whether you've met any alleged abuctees or not was not my point. As long as you understand that these people exist and they truly believe they had this experience, is all that is necessary to understand my point.

I also did not say that you or I have to be certain that they were not actually abducted by aliens. I asked if you would believe them, or would you be skeptical?

I would not even claim to be absolutely certain that they were not abducted, only that it is highly unlikely that they were. And that being skeptical of their claim is the rational position to take.

To clarify my overall point, you would most likely show a bit of skepticism toward these people's claims of being abducted by aliens, even though they are first person accounts from sincere people that are alive today. Yet you show no skepticism toward even more extraordinary claims from hearsay accounts written decades or more after the alleged magic events from 2000 years ago.

Quote:To be honest I am not sure how to answer the last paragraph, I would say it is trust based, but I am not sure.

I understand you trust the veracity of the Bible, my question is, why? To reiterate, they were written by unknown authors decades or more after the alleged events. Why is that more believable than the stories of alien abductees directly from the people that claim to have been abducted?

A bit of a non-sequitur, but if you were born in a Hindu country to Hindu parents, or a Muslim country to Muslim parents, you'd be making much the same arguments you are making now, but you'd be referencing other holy books with equal zeal.

I think the difference between biblical accounts and alien abductions, is that an alien abduction claim has not radically changed my life.

(September 20, 2014 at 9:53 am)C4RM5 Wrote: I think the difference between biblical accounts and alien abductions, is that an alien abduction claim has not radically changed my life.

Meh. One man's encounter with the Holy Spirit is another man's anal probe. Those who claim to have been abducted by aliens seem in many cases to have been radically changed, too. The same can be said of converts to Islam, Scientology, etc. On that basis, what are your criteria for determining the truth of the claims?

(September 20, 2014 at 9:58 am)Crossless1 Wrote:

(September 20, 2014 at 9:53 am)C4RM5 Wrote: I think the difference between biblical accounts and alien abductions, is that an alien abduction claim has not radically changed my life.

Meh. One man's encounter with the Holy Spirit is another man's anal probe. Those who claim to have been abducted by aliens seem in many cases to have been radically changed, too. The same can be said of converts to Islam, Scientology, etc. On that basis, what are your criteria for determining the truth of the claims?

I don't have any way of proving or disproving alien claims, it has never came up before.

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(September 20, 2014 at 9:58 am)Crossless1 Wrote:

(September 20, 2014 at 9:53 am)C4RM5 Wrote: I think the difference between biblical accounts and alien abductions, is that an alien abduction claim has not radically changed my life.

Meh. One man's encounter with the Holy Spirit is another man's anal probe. Those who claim to have been abducted by aliens seem in many cases to have been radically changed, too. The same can be said of converts to Islam, Scientology, etc. On that basis, what are your criteria for determining the truth of the claims?

I don't have any way of proving or disproving alien claims, it has never came up before.

(September 20, 2014 at 10:00 am)C4RM5 Wrote: I don't have any way of proving or disproving alien claims, it has never came up before.

Not asking you to prove or disprove them. Just asking if you'd be skeptical of them? And why or why not?

(September 20, 2014 at 10:03 am)Simon Moon Wrote:

(September 20, 2014 at 10:00 am)C4RM5 Wrote: I don't have any way of proving or disproving alien claims, it has never came up before.

Not asking you to prove or disprove them. Just asking if you'd be skeptical of them? And why or why not?

Sorry I now understand your question. Yes I would naturally be skeptical of them, main reason being I don't believe in aliens.