I've been thinking about this lately. The main reason I became an atheist is because I saw the disgusting inhumanity in the Bible. I thought the actions of Yahweh and the Hebrews to be barbaric, cruel, and all-around evil. But, I've thinking to myself recently, is that because of something basically built into me,(empathy) or is it because we don't (or at least should) see the kind of behavior as portrayed in the Bible as cruel and brutish due to our norms of morality today? After all, there have been plenty of societies throughout human history that viewed behavior that we see to be cruel as perfectly acceptable. So what I'm asking is, do you believe the concepts of good and evil to be universal truths, or just ideas that can vary from culture to culture or society to society?

Evil is the extreme end of cruelty for cruelty's sake. Annoying your 10 year old brother is cruel, but fun--probably not evil. Punishing people for eternity, or exterminating a race of people is evil. Somewhere closer on the scale to annoying your brother than punishing people for eternity is wrong, but not evil.

The question is too vague. Believe in... means what here? Define good and evil

Good and bad is just something we measure our pain with, its no more than that.

The Hebrews were practically saintly compared to the people who lived around them, who engaged in human sacrifices, wild sex orgies, rampant homosexuality and pedophilia, and all the other evils that caused God to destroy Sodom and Gamorrah.

I know that is not an explanation that will satisfy atheists, who demand that all people in all historical periods act like perfectly civilized 21st century Americans.

After all, we are so far superior to the Hebrews, since all we do is send drones to kill people at long range so we don't have to do the killing up close and personal, getting our hands dirty.

Therefore, we have the right to sit in judgment over the Hebrews, and condemn them, even though they were fighting the same kind of craziness we are currently fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.

None of the poll answers really match my beliefs.

I don't believe that good and evil exist objectively. I believe they "exist" in our subjective evaluations of actions. So, saying "something is good" or "something is evil" is easy short hand for "I believe something is good/evil".

Edit: I guess "somewhat" is a close enough match, so I'll vote for that.

(October 1, 2014 at 2:50 am)Blackrook Wrote: The Hebrews were practically saintly compared to the people who lived around them, who engaged in human sacrifices, wild sex orgies, rampant homosexuality and pedophilia, and all the other evils that caused God to destroy Sodom and Gamorrah.

I know that is not an explanation that will satisfy atheists, who demand that all people in all historical periods act like perfectly civilized 21st century Americans.

I would expect that a tribe of people led by the actual god of the universe would have behaved in a consistent manner from the very beginning and not have had to conform to cultural or societal values at any time. Or did I miss the part where Jews or Christians today keep slaves or stone adulterers and gays?

(October 1, 2014 at 2:50 am)Blackrook Wrote: The Hebrews were practically saintly compared to the people who lived around them, who engaged in human sacrifices, wild sex orgies, rampant homosexuality and pedophilia, and all the other evils that caused God to destroy Sodom and Gamorrah.

I know that is not an explanation that will satisfy atheists, who demand that all people in all historical periods act like perfectly civilized 21st century Americans.

After all, we are so far superior to the Hebrews, since all we do is send drones to kill people at long range so we don't have to do the killing up close and personal, getting our hands dirty.

Therefore, we have the right to sit in judgment over the Hebrews, and condemn them, even though they were fighting the same kind of craziness we are currently fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.

You're quite right about the Hebrews being a product of their times. BUT GOD was right there with them egging them on, aiding and abetting the killing and often stepping in to do the smiting himself. Not to mention "giving" his chosen people land that belonged to other people.

Speaking of Sodom and Gomorrah, did you notice that the one "good man" God agreed to save offered his virgin daughter to a crowd of neighbors just so he wouldn't have to fight to defend his guests from rape. Lovely father, Lot. Of course the daughter weren't so great either because after they escape Sodom and Gomorrah, they get Lot drunk just so they can have sex with him. They did it twice, once for each girl.

(October 1, 2014 at 2:50 am)Blackrook Wrote: ...who demand that all people in all historical periods act like perfectly civilized 21st century Americans.

The USA is a society in decline suffering from rampant fornication, materialism, celebrity idolization, and Earth worship. We are hardly a model civilization.

(October 1, 2014 at 2:50 am)Blackrook Wrote: The Hebrews were practically saintly compared to the people who lived around them, who engaged in human sacrifices, wild sex orgies, rampant homosexuality and pedophilia, and all the other evils that caused God to destroy Sodom and Gamorrah.

I'm not sure why we wouldn't count slaughtering entire towns because god said so human sacrifices, or saying that keeping young virgin girls for fucking isn't pedophilia. I don't see anything wrong with orgies or homosexuality, as long as they were all consenting adults.

Part of the problem with the bible is that Yahweh's opinion of right and wrong seems to be dictated by current Human culture, rather than dictated by what is actually best for the overall Human species.

Given how Yahweh states that anyone who doesn't follow him needs to die, what does he care if surrounding tribes kill each other anyway?