I can get behind that; and if it's a genuine theist position, I can get behind that too. This far and no farther, though - where I draw the line is if I have to paint a face on vastness and pretend it gives a shit about me.

When I look at the stars in the night sky I am reminded of all my dead ancestors who are keeping watch over me from heaven.

:-)

If you're god, you either go big or go home .. provided you exist at all. That's the catch.

Quote:It does seems so egotistical to look up at the stars and think they were made for the benefit of humans.

Religion's main purpose is to make insignificant idiots feel 'special.'

Imagine a planet much like our earth forms somewhere in the galaxy. Abiogenesis(the process of life arising from non living constituents) occurs around a volcanic vent deep the planet's primordial ocean. For the sake of discussion just imagine these first simple beings pondering their environment. They would ask why their god made such a vast ocean all of which except a tiny spot around the volcanic vent is lethal to its existence. The atheists among these most simple creatures would say "aha....this is evidence there is no god for a god would not create such vast barren wastelands".

A billion years passes and life has evolved and moved beyond the volcanic vent to fill the entire ocean. For the sake of discussion just imagine these more evolved beings pondering their environment. They would ask why their god made such a vast world of the atmosphere, land, and ocean...the majority of which is lethal to the existence of these more evolved creatures. The atheists among these more evolved creatures would say, "aha....this is evidence there is no god for a god would not create such vasts barren wastelands"

Three or four more billion years passes and life evolves even further still such that it now flies in the atmosphere and craws about the land. At night these even more evolved creatures would look up at their sky and ponder their environment. They would observe that their world is but a tiny speck in a vast landscape which is lethal to their existence. There would surely be atheists among those even more evolved creatures who would say, "aha....this is evidence there is no god...for a god would not create such vast barren wastelands". However a few of these beings have evolved something called foresight and imagine a day when life masters and makes fruitful the environment that the pessimistic and short sighted atheists call a wasteland.

Oh cool, Heywood, you think we will evolve into a sentient species which will dwell in the vastness of empty space, for whom there is a fertile ground to live where we only see near-vacuum populated by some particles? Awesome!

(November 16, 2014 at 5:32 pm)Alex K Wrote: Oh cool, Heywood, you think we will evolve into a sentient species which will dwell in the vastness of empty space, for whom there is a fertile ground to live where we only see near-vacuum populated by some particles? Awesome!

I think machine intelligence will evolve and dominate....but that is the subject of another thread.

If history tells us anything it is that life finds a way to take advantage of "wasted" space. The fact that it hasn't yet taken advantage of most of the universe is not unsurprising that given that the universe has only existed but an instance in comparison to its projected lifespan.

The "wasted space" argument is not a compelling argument against the existence of God.

But it's a very strong argument against the geocentric world view the bible presents.

(November 16, 2014 at 5:57 pm)abaris Wrote: But it's a very strong argument against the geocentric world view the bible presents.

The OP mentions nothing about the bible so now you are attempting to move the goal posts. What was once an argument against God is now an argument against the God of the bible.

And FWIW....humans are at the center of the observable universe. Any observer is at the center of the observable universe.

(November 16, 2014 at 5:54 pm)Heywood Wrote:

(November 16, 2014 at 5:32 pm)Alex K Wrote: Oh cool, Heywood, you think we will evolve into a sentient species which will dwell in the vastness of empty space, for whom there is a fertile ground to live where we only see near-vacuum populated by some particles? Awesome!

I think machine intelligence will evolve and dominate....but that is the subject of another thread.

If history tells us anything it is that life finds a way to take advantage of "wasted" space. The fact that it hasn't yet taken advantage of most of the universe is not unsurprising that given that the universe has only existed but an instance in comparison to its projected lifespan.

The "wasted space" argument is not a compelling argument against the existence of God.

There need to be no compelling argument against a word the means nothing, masqurading through the use of various fallacies as a concept that could somehow "exist". The vacuousness of God is compelling enough.