(November 23, 2014 at 1:49 pm)Heywood Wrote:

(November 23, 2014 at 11:59 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: Excuse me?

Which party lied us into the ruinous quagmire in Iraq, a disaster that is still paying dividends?

Which party crashed our economy in 2008?

Which party has managed to get nothing done on purpose since taking control of the House?

Which party shut down the government costing our economy some $24 billion in damages?

Which party nearly destroyed the country in Oct 2013 when they threatened to deliberately default on our debt in an act of political extortion? There was a big faction in the GOP that was crazy enough to do it, too. My jackass Senator Rand Paul was among those who voted at the 11th hour to press the button and have everything go up in an economic mushroom cloud.

"Give us what we want or Uncle Sam here gets a bullet in the head!"

The Republicans have done more damage to America than Osama Bin Laden could have ever dreamed of.

You can pretty much blame both parties for these things.

But you can only blame the democrats for using the IRS to target conservative groups in the hope of decreasing conservative turnout thereby stealing elections.

Um no, only one party is responsible for our 30 year decline. The only responsibility I blame democratic politicians and voters on is allowing ourselves to be pulled to the right.

(November 23, 2014 at 1:51 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(November 23, 2014 at 1:49 pm)Heywood Wrote: You can pretty much blame both parties for these things.

But you can only blame the democrats for using the IRS to target conservative groups in the hope of decreasing conservative turnout thereby stealing elections.

Um no, only one party is responsible for our 30 year decline. The only responsibility I blame democratic politicians and voters on is allowing ourselves to be pulled to the right.

If by decline you mean improved standard of living across all income classes then sure....the republicans can take credit for that. If you mean people are worse off now then they were 30 years ago....then your just being foolish because that obviously isn't true.

(November 23, 2014 at 1:24 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(November 23, 2014 at 1:19 pm)A Theist Wrote: ...and which party did the voters elect to win the State and National mid-terms?

No one said Americans were smart.

Indeed. Since 2004, I've learned that no one should ever underestimate the stupidity of the American voters.

If Americans voted according to their best interests, the GOP would have about 3 seats in the House of Representatives and maybe a Senate seat.

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(November 23, 2014 at 1:49 pm)Heywood Wrote: You can pretty much blame both parties for these things.

Ah yes, "both sides do it", also known as ad hominem tu quoque. It's the last line of defense for the GOP, the bunker in which conservatives hide when they've been caught being abusive, corrupt or inept.

Sorry but bullshit. Both sides don't.

One side lied us into the Iraq War.
One side's economic policies crashed the economy in '08.
One side took control of the House in '10 and passed a record low number of bills, on purpose to grind government to a halt.
One side has been abusing the filibuster to filibuster every single Senate act since they lost control of it in '06
One side shut down the government.
One side nearly destroyed the country by deliberately defaulting on our debts.

If the GOP were bank robbers, "Both Sides Do It" would be the name of the getaway car.

Quote:But you can only blame the democrats for using the IRS to target conservative groups in the hope of decreasing conservative turnout thereby stealing elections.

Oh for fuck sake, the IRS "scandal" and crackpot conspiracy theories that surround it? Seriously? Are you still flogging that dead horse?

(November 23, 2014 at 2:11 pm)Heywood Wrote:

(November 23, 2014 at 1:51 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Um no, only one party is responsible for our 30 year decline. The only responsibility I blame democratic politicians and voters on is allowing ourselves to be pulled to the right.

If by decline you mean improved standard of living across all income classes then sure....the republicans can take credit for that. If you mean people are worse off now then they were 30 years ago....then your just being foolish because that obviously isn't true.

Will you get of that crap!

You are not improving anything by insisting that the exploding pay gap helps. You are justifying the boat sinking and BILLIONAIRE NICK HANOUER would agree WITH ME!

If you insist on not giving a shit about inability of workers to pay their bills you will push any population to the point of survival by pushing back. You want the rest of the world to look like us? The way you think it works WILL NOT WORK.

---

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2...08014.html ("The pitchforks are coming)

QUOTE FROM THE ARTICLE

Nick Wrote:And so I have a message for my fellow filthy rich, for all of us who live in our gated bubble worlds: Wake up, people. It won’t last.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2...z3JvX38Scc

Now for the last time, this guy is not a commie Stalin lover. He is rich so if you do not want to listen to me THEN LISTEN TO A RICH GUY.

You push any population to the point they cannot survive they will look for the first opportunity to push back. This is evolutionary.

(November 23, 2014 at 2:36 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: Ah yes, "both sides do it", also known as ad hominem tu quoque. It's the last line of defense for the GOP, the bunker in which conservatives hide when they've been caught being abusive, corrupt or inept.

Sorry but bullshit. Both sides don't.

One side lied us into the Iraq War.
One side's economic policies crashed the economy in '08.
One side took control of the House in '10 and passed a record low number of bills, on purpose to grind government to a halt.
One side has been abusing the filibuster to filibuster every single Senate act since they lost control of it in '06
One side shut down the government.
One side nearly destroyed the country by deliberately defaulting on our debts.

If the GOP were bank robbers, "Both Sides Do It" would be the name of the getaway car.

Oh for fuck sake, the IRS "scandal" and crackpot conspiracy theories that surround it? Seriously? Are you still flogging that dead horse?

It is not a tu quoque because I am not using it to defend the republicans. I am countering your claim that it is only the republicans responsible for them.

The democrats participated in the lies that led us into war.
The democrats participated in the the policies which lead to the 08 crash.
The democrats in the senate failed to act on many of the well over a thousand bills which passed in the house since 2010 on purpose just to grind the government to a halt.
The democrats abused the filibuster when they were the minority in the senate.
The democrats participated in the government shut down by refusing to negotiate on many issues.
The democrats are just as guilty as the republicans.

You are the one beating the dead horse. You continually droning your left wing falsehoods in the hope that if you lie often enough...eventually people will believe. The difference between you and I is I blame all the clowns in the circus where as you only blame the clowns with the red hair......which is silly.

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(November 23, 2014 at 4:41 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Now for the last time, this guy is not a commie Stalin lover. He is rich so if you do not want to listen to me THEN LISTEN TO A RICH GUY.

You push any population to the point they cannot survive they will look for the first opportunity to push back. This is evolutionary.

Why should I listen to him just because he is rich? When I ask you to listen to Bill Gates when he says we should be looking at consumption and not income you refuse.

The fact that Nick Hanauer is wealthy does not grant him supreme authority on these issues. He has an asshole just like the rest of us....and he has an opinion just like the rest of us.

(November 23, 2014 at 9:01 pm)Heywood Wrote: It is not a tu quoque because I am not using it to defend the republicans. I am countering your claim that it is only the republicans responsible for them.

Distinction without a difference.

Fake centrists like you and major figures in the media like David Gregory, Chuck Todd, et. al. keep running the "Aw, gee whiz, both sides" meme which is designed to defend Republican abuse and incompetence. It's a meme designed to diffuse responsibility and make sure no one is ever blamed or held to account.

The GOP are the bank robbers, "Both Sides" is the name of the getaway car, and people like you drive it.

Quote:The democrats participated in the lies that led us into war.

No, they didn't.

Part of the curse of being a liberal is you remember things that happened in the past. History can't be re-written for us. And we're forever trying to correct people like you who push the re-write.

I remember that time in the run up to the Iraq War. Anyone who didn't salute and support the effort was called a "traitor". Any professional in the media who didn't play along was taking their chances. Phil Donahue was fired and the Dixie Chicks' career imploded.

Additionally, the media had imposed strict taboos on the word "lie" and the insult "liar". Anyone who used such words during the W administration, before and after the Iraq invasion, were treated as if they'd said "mother fucker" on the air.

Tremendous pressure was brought by the W administration on the media, our intelligence service and those in Congress. In context to the aftermath of 9/11 when most of America was shocked by the event and our media had successfully pumped the atmosphere full of fear, it's easy to see why few prominent figures opposed the war and those who did were quickly marginalized.

So we can forgive the Democrats at the time for saying, "if you say so" and going along. Their lack of courage in opposition to W's war should not be seen as if they were co-conspirators.

Quote:The democrats participated in the the policies which lead to the 08 crash.

No, they didn't.

The economic calamity was the outcome of years, if not decades of deregulation of financial activities and allowing certain financial entities to merge and become too-big-to-fail behemoths.

Additionally, Bush had virtually unlimited power during his administration. Even after his defeat in '06, the Democrats still spinelessly caved in to his demands, doing everything he wanted with the occasional "non-binding resolution" to voice their protest.

The only thing denied Bush was his scheme to privatize Social Security. Aside from that he got everything he wanted. With power comes responsibility. Bush is 100% responsible for everything that happened during his administration.

Quote:The democrats in the senate failed to act on many of the well over a thousand bills which passed in the house since 2010 on purpose just to grind the government to a halt.

Because they opposed the Republican bills (and source please on the "thousand" bills because the GOP House was not this productive).

This is not the same as filibustering bills you later vote for, as became the GOP practice. The GOP was doing this, trying to grind government to a halt.

Quote:The democrats abused the filibuster when they were the minority in the senate.

No, they didn't.

Quote:The democrats participated in the government shut down by refusing to negotiate on many issues.

No, they didn't.

The things Republicans want to "negotiate" were laws that were already passed by Congress, signed by the president, upheld by the courts and ratified by the recent election. The GOP wanted to extort the American people into allowing them to effectively veto a bill already in effect, threatening to destroy the country if their demands weren't met.

YOU
CAN'T
DO
THAT

This is not government by the extortionists for the extortionists.

Here's a video that explains remedial American civics, if you're still not getting it:

Quote:The democrats are just as guilty as the republicans.

No, they're not.

Quote:The difference between you and I is I blame all the clowns in the circus where as you only blame the clowns with the red hair......which is silly.

The difference between you and I is I blame the people who actually did the crime. You want to diffuse responsibility which helps to run cover for the GOP.

"Aw, gee whiz, both sides do it. Washington is just broken. Oh well, whataya gonna do?" That's the getaway car for the criminals. Go put in an application to be the new moderator for Meet the Press. You'd blend in well with the Washington bubble and its fake centrism.

(November 23, 2014 at 1:24 pm)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(November 23, 2014 at 1:19 pm)A Theist Wrote: ...and which party did the voters elect to win the State and National mid-terms?

No one said Americans were smart.

After six years of obama and the democrats they finally wised up. At least now our country's not on a fast downhill slide to becoming like Europe.

Amazing how after we elected Obama twice we still have too deal with a bunch of retards bragging about how they won the 35% midterms by a slim margin americans wised up? just like the Americans who elected obama twice right asshole? I guess when Hillary wins in 2016 you'll say Americans wised down right asshole?

Right wing Americans are either rich racist or religous or a combination of the three. We should tax everyone who makes 1 million a year by 90% outlaw hate speech and punish it with the death penalty. And and make forcing religion in schools and on our public tax code a crime punishable by life in jail then we can be rid of kkk (or conservataives or Republicans or whatever fake name their calling themselves these days)

(November 24, 2014 at 6:59 am)simplemoss Wrote: We should tax everyone who makes 1 million a year by 90% outlaw hate speech and punish it with the death penalty. And and make forcing religion in schools and on our public tax code a crime punishable by life in jail then we can be rid of kkk (or conservataives or Republicans or whatever fake name their calling themselves these days)

Ummmm....no?

(November 24, 2014 at 6:59 am)simplemoss Wrote: Amazing how after we elected Obama twice we still have too deal with a bunch of retards bragging about how they won the 35% midterms by a slim margin americans wised up?

We're talking about someone who's previously posted (this was years ago) an admission that he wasn't rich. He therefore has no rational motive to be so enthusiastically a Republican. That he is anyway suggests to me that he's not motivated by reason or facts. No wonder I've said "35%" about twice to him and the election still represents a mandate from "the people".

Quote:just like the Americans who elected obama twice right asshole? I guess when Hillary wins in 2016 you'll say Americans wised down right asshole?

He can't remember two years ago. He won't remember two years from now. The curse of being a liberal is we remember the past.