(December 18, 2014 at 6:29 pm)Alice Wrote: It's just, so hilariously over your head, Nappy

No, I really don't think it's as clever as you make it out to be.

Ok so let's get some facts straight - First - Health is not only (as I have already said) physical well being, but psychic/mental and social well being too. Napo, when you say "she looks unhealthy" what are you implying? Do you know her diet? How much she exercises? Her bone structure and how many kg/lbs she weights? Who would you consider more healthy - A skinny person with the ideal weight that doesn't exercise, smokes and eats a lot of junk food, or the person who is a few kg overweight (like her) that eats right and exercises moderately well? The answer is that society would consider the skinny person healthier, and that is purely wrong.

I'm not here making judgements about everyone's personal preferences, honestly, as a straight male, I like various kinds of female body types and a few kg closer to fat or to skinny doesn't affect my perception of females much, I've found women who are a little overweight to be hot, as well as women who are on the skinnier side (like my girlfriend) - The judgement I'm making is that we shouldn't judge someone's health based solely on the fact that they are a few kgs overweight, because there could be many reasons for that and even if only a small percentage of people are fat because of diseases, we still shouldn't stereotype everyone based on the fact some fat people eat a lot because they can't help themselves.

This kind of judgement contributes to a beauty obsession and leads, mainly between females, but also males, to mental problems, eating disorders and so on - Few people can have bodies like heavily photoshoped models who show up on magazines and commercials have, I'd say almost no one can have such a "perfect" body unless you do a lot of plastic surgeries. We should just mind our business and don't make assumptions about people's physical health until we actually know how healthy the person actually is - I'm including mental health as well.

Capt Awesome, what leads you to believe she couldn't pull more than one push up? I've said a few days ago that I have a friend like that who is a black belt in karate and she is a great athlete, I've been more fat than her and I managed to run for more than 30m in a row, I don't know how many km but I made a reasonably good distance - And you surely know some people who are skinny and can't run more than 2m in a row.

I don't agree with the "Fat is beautiful" motto, simply because it is making something that is entirely subjective (beauty) objective, and that's something I can't tolerate - It's like if someone said "Blondes are beautiful" - Anyone can be beautiful to someone's eyes, there is no need to try to make yourself objectively beautiful. I do support fat acceptance because I was fat once and I despise fat shaming - I know how much it hurts, and assumptions society makes about fat people (such as "Fat people are lazy" - As if being physically active was the only factor in determining how lazy you aren't) leads to discrimination and social instituted prejudice - Fat people have a hard time getting jobs, and there's even studies who show fat people have a harder time with justice - Such as judges being less likely to believe in a fat witness (the same goes for physically unattractive)

And this is coming from someone who is not healthy - I may not be fat, but I smoke and I don't exercise much - Although I must say I eat a balanced diet (except fish, I eat few fish because I don't like the taste)

(December 19, 2014 at 12:03 pm)Blackout Wrote: (except fish, I eat few fish because I don't like the taste)

What?!!
And you call yourself a portuguese!!

(December 19, 2014 at 12:30 pm)pocaracas Wrote:

(December 19, 2014 at 12:03 pm)Blackout Wrote: (except fish, I eat few fish because I don't like the taste)

What?!!
And you call yourself a portuguese!!

I fucking hate bacalhau, really I do. I love meat and vegetables.

(December 19, 2014 at 12:36 pm)Blackout Wrote: I fucking hate bacalhau, really I do. I love meat and vegetables.

hock:




There are 1001 ways to cook the damn fish... you're bound to like one of them!

I think she looks fine in both pictures. Not having an eating disorder is way more important than not being fat, but she's not fat. She doesn't look unhealthily thin in the first picture. She doesn't look unhealthily fat in the second picture. Both pictures are fine. Both reflect who she wants to be at the time she was photographed. I think it's stupid to celebrate being fat. It's also stupid to celebrate being skinny. Eat healthy and go to regular well checks. If your doctor says you're healthy then celebrate regardless of how you look or what people think of your body. If your doctor says you're unhealthy, find out what you can do to change it. For your own health not to fit in. It's stupid to let girls think they have to be really skinny to be pretty. That's where this whole thing started. Then they took it too far. It's stupid to let girls think being fat isn't unhealthy.

You teach your kids to be healthy and eat right and take care of their bodies. This is a health thing. You talk about it at the dinner table, in the garden, or on a family hike. You talk about how you treat you body and how it affects your health. Don't mention pretty in these talks. It's about health and prettiness is irrelevant to health.

Then separately you teach your kids to be confident in their looks. You let them know that it's okay to not be exactly the same as everyone else and it's our differences that make us beautiful (or handsome). You talk about hygiene, cosmetics, and clothing styles. You can mention words like pretty and beautiful here. You can tell them that they shouldn't feel pressure to go through all this work to make people accept them, but if they just like it or it makes them feel good to dress up then they can.

I think it's really important to keep the two issues separate and completely avoid the whole issue of fat vs skinny. Healthy vs beautiful.
Of course your daughter is beautiful even if she's fat, but she's not healthy and so you talk about the health issues with her at dinner and during excercise. You can still build her up in front of the mirror and tell her she's beautiful. But don't tell her she's healthy if she's not.

(December 19, 2014 at 9:56 am)Napoléon Wrote: No, I really don't think it's as clever as you make it out to be.

I didn't say it was clever at all. I did suggest that you managed to completely and utterly misinterpret her message on such a fantastically entertaining level as to tickle my funny bone.

* Violet stretches.

And to think it's only the start of the weekend

(December 19, 2014 at 12:52 pm)pocaracas Wrote:

(December 19, 2014 at 12:36 pm)Blackout Wrote: I fucking hate bacalhau, really I do. I love meat and vegetables.

hock:

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There are 1001 ways to cook the damn fish... you're bound to like one of them!

I do like one or two, but it's not exactly my favourite food

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Quote:You teach your kids to be healthy and eat right and take care of their bodies. This is a health thing. You talk about it at the dinner table, in the garden, or on a family hike. You talk about how you treat you body and how it affects your health. Don't mention pretty in these talks. It's about health and prettiness is irrelevant to health.

Even so, It's not wise to make assumptions about one's health based purely on the fact they are a few kg overweight - Even if someone has an unhealthy habit, that doesn't make them fully unhealthy if they compensate with other healthy habits - Most people will have one or two slightly unhealthy habit and if we always put our health as a priority we'd end up not enjoying life. A good example is spending too much time in front of the computer, it's certainly not good for anyone, but so many people do it, specially the young. Few people would celebrate being fat, but that doesn't mean someone's value will be determined by the fact they are fat.

On a sidenote - Why do people care so much about making value judgements about other people's health? If no one is forcing you unhealthy or undesired lifestyle choices, it's not your problem how fat your neighbour is or how many cigarettes he/she smokes, or even if he/she likes doing drugs once in a while, that's a personal choice, and I'm sure that with so many people engaging in unhealthy habits there will always be someone who feels attracted to anyone

(December 15, 2014 at 10:11 am)Napoléon Wrote:

(December 15, 2014 at 10:02 am)Alex K Wrote: And I highly doubt that point.

Why?

Far more people die every year due to obesity and issues relating directly to being overweight than they do to being underweight.

Far more people die cycling than crocodile wrestling, because far more people regularly cycle than regularly crocodile wrestle. The same is true here. If every overweight person became anorexic tomorrow, the rate of very early death (say, before age 45) would dramatically increase. The percentage of those in each category who die prematurely (and HOW prematurely) is what matters for the kind of conclusion you're driving at, not the raw numbers.

Looking at it another way, you're not likely to survive to the point where your body weight gets 90% lower than what it should be. You are likely to survive way beyond the point at which your body weight reaches 90% HIGHER than what it should be. 

(December 15, 2014 at 11:02 am)vorlon13 Wrote: A friend of mine has a teenage son with severe anorexia.  It has been a depressing ordeal for his family.  The kid is not concerned with his appearance, he has convinced himself virtually all food is either unhealthy, contaminated or tainted somehow.  The prognosis is not good.

That's orthorexia nervosa. It's worth them looking it up and making sure he's getting appropriate therapy and not being treated by someone who only understands anorexia.

(December 15, 2014 at 12:20 pm)Napoléon Wrote: Alex K
Exactly, and I think this is why Napoleons post reinforcing that pissed me off a bit even though he may be right in principle.

I think you guys are in denial to be honest. I don't look at that image and see someone who looks like an image of healthiness. I see someone who looks a tad overweight.

I'm not saying she looks disgusting, or that she's obese, or that she looks massively unhealthy. Just that she isn't the ideal of health that kids should, at least in my opinion, be aspiring to.

I could easily, and probably quite cheaply, play the 'Americans are used to seeing more fat people, so it's considered more normal' card. I honestly think seeing super fat people on a daily basis, even in places like the UK (we're the fattest nation in Europe if I'm not mistaken) can warp your ideas of what should be considered as healthy. I mean, by today's standards, she's not like some super lard arse, and I wouldn't by any means say she particularly needs to lose weight or say she's anything but normal. But I would be lying to myself if I said she looked 'perfectly healthy' like you guys are.

Yes, there are studies confirming that phenomenon.

http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v38/n5...3154a.html

http://www.bmj.com/content/337/bmj.a494

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/201...164116.htm

(December 15, 2014 at 12:42 pm)Napoléon Wrote:

(December 15, 2014 at 12:20 pm)Jaysyn Wrote: Here's one.  Looks like it's healthier in the long run to be a few pounds overweight than underweight.  This was a followup to a 2005 study that came to the same findings.  Sorry if someone else has already posted this, I haven't read every post in this thread yet.

Interesting. I notice it's the first thing that comes up in google too, from a quick search of the term "overweight is healthier".

There's a few factors this study doesn't seem to address.

BMI is a notoriously bad gauge of how healthy someone is. A study based entirely on assessing people via BMI is not one I'm inclined to find compelling. The study didn't take into consideration many other factors, like general fitness levels.

The best argument I could see being made from this, is that skinny people can be just as unhealthy as overweight people. Something I've never denied. Or maybe, just maybe, using the BMI scale is a terrible thing to use. The very fact that the study is based entirely on BMI just makes it null and void from the start.

I don't have time to find the studies right now, but again, you're right there. In the last few years research has found that when you directly compare how people are classified by the BMI to how they're classified by body fat measuring tools, the BMI is shown to be VERY unreliable, not just for highly muscular people but for many of those classified as "normal" who have a high body fat percentage and low muscle tone and bone density.

Fucking necro