(December 30, 2014 at 12:39 am)whateverist Wrote: So who do you feel you have more in common with: your brother who at least does not outright reject God .. or .. your father who is as certain regarding his position as you are regarding your own?

Maybe you should work your way toward being a Christian agnostic. You know, hold your god-beleif by faith with no over-reaching claims you can't back up. Or maybe you do already count yourself as agnostic to some degree?

My brother and I get along very good. My dad is a hard guy to get close to. He's too guarded.

No on the aggie/Christian. I' too spiritual to consider doubt. My system of believe doubts men, not God. I have nothing to prove to anyone.

Whats interesting is that my dad always pulls me in with a comment.... and I'll a willing participant. But, I know I'm just supporting my views, not evangelizing in the least! LOL! Quite the opposite!

I try to adhere to the teachings of Christ. I like the sacraments of the Catholic church. I've always been questioning, but respectful of their laws.
And I never miss a chance to learn and debate the issues.

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(December 30, 2014 at 8:39 am)watchamadoodle Wrote: I have noticed that Christians make a huge distinction between agnostic and atheist. When I talk to Christians on forums, they often tell me that I'm an agnostic instead of an atheist. Atheist seems to imply hostility to God in the mind of Christians. Being an atheist is the worst thing imaginable in the opinion of many Christians.

Here are some interesting events: My father the atheist, gets mad at me for what he calls "blind faith", aka no proof! And he usually says to me; "you are smarter than that"! Which gets my blood boiling! Also, I work with a few atheists. And they will laugh and wise-crack at "religious events". Very irritating. And when an offender is brought in who is displaying any religion, my fellow officers will demean their beliefs. Which most times will have nothing to do with their crime! Personally I believe it is a form of justifying, and fortifying their own bias against religion. We had a bad priest arrested quite a while ago, and "these guys" went on for weeks on "this is why I don't believe, and/or don't go to church". I finally had to tell them please find a new excuse NOT to go to church! And that one asshole priest wasn't enough to last them a lifetime!

You just don't see that with agnostics. I see them as "searchers".

My brother (the agnostic) has never, ever said anything of the sort. And I think its sort of disarming when they say: "I don't know", and "Looking" to believe!

Again I'm using my limited experiences. But, they are real experiences.

(December 30, 2014 at 10:16 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Any story that ends with hugs can't be all bad.

Thanks! Always great to see you here MRA!

You nailed my dad to the tee! My brother and I get along wonderfully. But I'm afraid he is no closer to God than my dad. I think my brother is probably more considerate of my feelings and possibly humoring me a bit. Its funny, from day one you've reminded me of my brother Chris! And the way you described your relationship w/ your parents, and then my dad was my bro 101! Chris is a veteran Air Force Sgt, graduated 1st in his class, and installed navigation systems in Humvee's during the Iraqi war. He's also a writer and into fiction and adventure! Big comic book collector since he was a kid! I'm very proud of him. And we're very close.

Don't know if you noticed but I've taken yours, and others advice and I'm trying to be more thought provoking about God, than argumentative these days.

I love your insight! Thank you! Peace bro, and Happy New Year! Ron

(December 31, 2014 at 10:15 pm)ronedee Wrote:

(December 30, 2014 at 8:39 am)watchamadoodle Wrote: I have noticed that Christians make a huge distinction between agnostic and atheist. When I talk to Christians on forums, they often tell me that I'm an agnostic instead of an atheist. Atheist seems to imply hostility to God in the mind of Christians. Being an atheist is the worst thing imaginable in the opinion of many Christians.

Here are some interesting events: My father the atheist, gets mad at me for what he calls "blind faith", aka no proof! And he usually says to me; "you are smarter than that"! Which gets my blood boiling! Also, I work with a few atheists. And they will laugh and wise-crack at "religious events". Very irritating. And when an offender is brought in who is displaying any religion, my fellow officers will demean their beliefs. Which most times will have nothing to do with their crime! Personally I believe it is a form of justifying, and fortifying their own bias against religion. We had a bad priest arrested quite a while ago, and "these guys" went on for weeks on "this is why I don't believe, and/or don't go to church". I finally had to tell them please find a new excuse NOT to go to church! And that one asshole priest wasn't enough to last them a lifetime!

You just don't see that with agnostics. I see them as "searchers".

My brother (the agnostic) has never, ever said anything of the sort. And I think its sort of disarming when they say: "I don't know", and "Looking" to believe!

Again I'm using my limited experiences. But, they are real experiences.

As you've probably heard a million times already, most people are agnostic and atheist (i.e. believe that certainty about the existence of God is impossible, and believe that God probably doesn't exist). If a person isn't allowed to use both labels. then the choice might indicate something about his/her personality. Most believers are agnostic theists, so an unbeliever who chooses to abbreviate as agnostic instead of atheist is trying to be agreeable to theists?

I know what you mean about atheists ridiculing Christians. I notice that inclination in myself since becoming more certain of atheism. I really don't want to feel that way about Chrisitans. Hopefully it will diminish as I get more settled into my atheist beliefs.

(December 31, 2014 at 11:24 pm)ronedee Wrote: Don't know if you noticed but I've taken yours, and others advice and I'm trying to be more thought provoking about God, than argumentative these days.

I love your insight! Thank you! Peace bro, and Happy New Year! Ron

It's very noticeable. I think it will lead to more productive discussions. I'm impressed, people hardly ever really try to change their approach. It says a lot about you that you're willing to even try.

Unfortunately, you'll most likely end up provoking the same thought over and over.