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(January 19, 2015 at 3:25 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Except that no ones simply asserted it. It's been explained to you, at length, multiple times - with reference. This thread exists Heywood, and is now 58 pages long......
Hows about that little numbered list - while we're on the topic of observation, feel any need to readdress any part of that? Like the part that says "even if true"?
(meanwhile, no one actually has to provide you with what you're demanding - it's been provided out of conversational courtesy)
No it hasn't been explained. You've simply spent 58 pages asserting it. It is really simple Rhythm. Falsify my claim by presenting an observation of an evolutionary system coming into existence without intellects. They best you have done is a river system and that isn't even close to being an evolutionary system. Here....I will even format it for you.
Write something like this:
________ is an evolutionary system which has been observed to come into existence without an intellect. It is an evolutionary system because it has these elements or their equivalents of evolutionary systems. Those elements are: Replication, Heritable traits, Change, and Selection.
Can you do that for me? Can you put something in that blank for me to evaluate instead of simply asserting for 58 pages that there is something in that blank?
January 19, 2015 at 3:58 pm (This post was last modified: January 19, 2015 at 4:01 pm by helyott.)
(January 19, 2015 at 3:20 am)Heywood Wrote:
(January 18, 2015 at 4:55 pm)helyott Wrote: Computer simulated evolution is real evolution of virtual animals.
As we are writing about true animals and true life your argument can't be accepted.
All the creation you are dealing with are artificial creations. Because you have 2 created creations who are artificial you can't argue that life is created by intelligence or planification.
I have an exemple of evolutionary system come into existence : The system we are living in and that we can modelize with computer. With a computer can you create a true living system in true life ? ? ? Nop.
You are a sophist.
On earth some artificial system with evolution inside can exist = is true.
This artificial system is made by man ( because a computer must be programmed ) = Is true.
Man is intelligent. I will say yes.. But...
All real living system is created by intelligent planification. False.
What you have "proved" is that we can create only artificial evoluting system nothing else.
Try another argument please.
Mycoplasma laboratorium is a species of life created in the laboratory. Its DNA was constructed in a lab and the organism was assembled. It is a living thing constructed by intellects that is now evolving. Your claim that intellects only create evolutionary systems which evolve artificial non living things is false.
It has been demonstrated that intellects can create evolutionary systems which evolve biological things. It has been demonstrated that intellects can create evolutionary systems which evolve virtual things. Its been demonstrated that intellects can create evolutionary systems which evolve information. It has been demonstrated that intellects can create evolutionary systems which evolve in animate things.
What has never been demonstrated to be true.....ever.....is the claim that evolutionary systems can come into existence without the involvement of intellects.
Again, I ask you to give a clear example of an evolutionary system which was observed to come into existence which did not require the involvement of an intellect. Put up or shut up.
I don't want to loose my time saying each time the same thing, if you want to explain the same thing again and again and again, i don't want to explain again and again that, the more important proof that a system can be evolutionary and without been created by an intelligence is the system you are living in...
But je ne parle pas aux cons, ça les instruit....
I am not here to speak about a concept, that you don t have a single chance to make me believe in. This concept is in my signature.
If God is the answer to your question, it means that you have asked the wrong question.
A good question always ask how never why.
January 19, 2015 at 3:59 pm (This post was last modified: January 19, 2015 at 4:01 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(January 19, 2015 at 3:52 pm)Heywood Wrote: No it hasn't been explained. You've simply spent 58 pages asserting it.
Are we going to go down this road again? You stating that this thread doesn't exist, denying anyone's participation in it, then having the thread quotewalled - to no avail? Tell you what, deny it three times, like last time, and I'll oblige. Or, you could read the thread.
Quote: It is really simple Rhythm. Falsify my claim by presenting an observation of an evolutionary system coming into existence without intellects.
Without a requirement of intellect, weasel. Already been done - to death. You're so goddamned sloppy it's no wonder you've fucked this up.
Quote:They best you have done is a river system and that isn't even close to being an evolutionary system. Here....I will even format it for you.
You already did format it for me, with the "observations" you chose to classify as evolutionary systems. But sure...I';ll do it -again..and again...and again....otherwise what would you have to pretend doesn;t exist?
[A procedural generation] is an evolutionary system which has been observed to come into existence without [a requirement of] an intellect. It is an evolutionary system because it has these elements or their equivalents of evolutionary systems. Those elements are: Replication, Heritable traits, Change, and Selection. [So sayeth Heywood].
Quote:Can you do that for me? Can you put something in that blank for me to evaluate instead of simply asserting for 58 pages that there is something in that blank?
I've been doing it for you (as have others), it just doesn't do it for you, because it can't. You'd be up shit creek, and you're far too invested.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
January 19, 2015 at 4:01 pm (This post was last modified: January 19, 2015 at 4:02 pm by Heywood.)
(January 19, 2015 at 3:59 pm)Rhythm Wrote:
(January 19, 2015 at 3:52 pm)Heywood Wrote: No it hasn't been explained. You've simply spent 58 pages asserting it.
[
Are we going to go down this road again? You stating that this thread doesn't exist, denying anyone's participation in it, then having the thread quotewalled - to no avail? Tell you what, deny it three times, like last time, and I'll oblige. Or, you could read the thread.
Quote: It is really simple Rhythm. Falsify my claim by presenting an observation of an evolutionary system coming into existence without intellects.
Without a requirement of intellect, weasel. Already been done - to death.
Quote:They best you have done is a river system and that isn't even close to being an evolutionary system. Here....I will even format it for you.
You already did format it for me, with the "observations" you chose to classify as evolutionary systems. But sure...I';ll do it -again..and again...and again....otherwise what would you have to pretend doesn;t exist?
[A procedural generation] is an evolutionary system which has been observed to come into existence without [a requirement of] an intellect. It is an evolutionary system because it has these elements or their equivalents of evolutionary systems. Those elements are: Replication, Heritable traits, Change, and Selection. [So sayeth Heywood].
Quote:Can you do that for me? Can you put something in that blank for me to evaluate instead of simply asserting for 58 pages that there is something in that blank?
I've been doing it for you (as have others), it just doesn't do it for you, because it can't. You'd be up shit creek, and you're far too invested.
If you can't or are unable to fill in the blank, exit the thread.
How about "Biological evolution is an evolutionary system which has been observed to come into existence without an intellect [or requirement of same]. It is an evolutionary system because it has these elements or their equivalents of evolutionary systems. Those elements are: Replication, Heritable traits, Change, and Selection."
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
January 19, 2015 at 4:07 pm (This post was last modified: January 19, 2015 at 4:08 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Are you alright Heywood? Is there something wrong with your eyes? You actually quoted my response and then re-demanded that I fill in a blank which had been filled in....in the response you quoted. Maybe that's why you decided a hide tag would be appropriate, eh troll? No, no ...wait "This is not the thread you're looking for".....hmn...nah, that didn't work for me either.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(January 19, 2015 at 4:04 pm)Stimbo Wrote: How about "Biological evolution is an evolutionary system which has been observed to come into existence without an intellect [or requirement of same]. It is an evolutionary system because it has these elements or their equivalents of evolutionary systems. Those elements are: Replication, Heritable traits, Change, and Selection."
Thanks Stimbo, this along the lines of what I am looking for. The problem with biological evolution is we did not observe its implementation....its coming into existence. So putting "biological evolution" into the blank creates a false statement.
Can you put another evolutionary system into that blank that we have observed coming into existence?
No, now the ball is back in your court to falsify my statement, not merely assert it.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
(January 19, 2015 at 4:04 pm)Stimbo Wrote: How about "Biological evolution is an evolutionary system which has been observed to come into existence without an intellect [or requirement of same]. It is an evolutionary system because it has these elements or their equivalents of evolutionary systems. Those elements are: Replication, Heritable traits, Change, and Selection."
Thanks Stimbo, this along the lines of what I am looking for. The problem with biological evolution is we did not observe its implementation....its coming into existence. So putting "biological evolution" into the blank creates a false statement.
Can you put another evolutionary system into that blank that we have observed coming into existence?
Implementation ?
Do you have a scientific definition of what is life ? And can you tell us what is différence beetwen a virus and a living organism ?
If God is the answer to your question, it means that you have asked the wrong question.
A good question always ask how never why.
January 19, 2015 at 4:21 pm (This post was last modified: January 19, 2015 at 4:22 pm by Heywood.)
(January 19, 2015 at 4:10 pm)Stimbo Wrote: No, now the ball is back in your court to falsify my statement, not merely assert it.
Humans are a product of biological evolution and were not around at its implementation to observe it. This is a fact and it is not in dispute.
Can you at least fill in the blank with an evolutionary system humans were around to observe when it came into existence? If evolutionary systems don't need intellects to come into existence there should be plenty of examples of evolutionary systems coming into existence without intellects.....just as there are plenty of examples of evolutionary system which required intellects. You shouldn't have to struggle to find one to fill in the blank. You should be able to give me multiple examples. I am just looking for one unambiguous example.
