(March 20, 2015 at 5:51 pm)LostLocke Wrote:

(March 20, 2015 at 12:54 pm)Drew_2013 Wrote: What's circular about it? Why make such a claim without any explanation? You asked me how things would be different if God didn't exist and I answered.

That's the exact same thing as me saying...
If Sauron didn't exist, I would expect to find nothing. You and I wouldn't be alive. There would be no stars or planets, etc etc etc.
We are alive and things exist, therefore Sauron must exist.

You're taking something that we already know exists and backtracking it as evidence for the existence of something else that, apparently, can't be shown to exist on its own.
If that's the case, anyone can shoehorn anything into the existence of the universe as of evidence for the existence of anything else.

I've spent pages trying to convey this!!!

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(March 20, 2015 at 5:17 pm)Rhythm Wrote:

(March 20, 2015 at 12:54 pm)Drew_2013 Wrote: Again the reason the Santa to God analogy is poor (at best) is because the existence of Santa is easily falsified.

Oh....kindly demonstrate that this is true? Do you have some argument as to the non-existence of Santa?

Buddy, you're gonna be disappointed...

(March 20, 2015 at 12:54 pm)Drew_2013 Wrote: No because I don't merely lack belief in Santa I firmly disbelieve.

On what basis do you disbelieve?

Drew_2013 Wrote:However as I have pointed out its not unreasonable to believe the universe and our existence was caused by a Creator and I have offered evidence in support of that belief.

I have yet to see evidence offered that wasn't either emotional to some degree, or depended on one or more logical fallacies, or which ignore considerable problems that are usually hand-waved with an argument that cannot be falsified.

Drew_2013 Wrote:I don't attempt to disparage atheism by claiming they have no evidence in support of their belief and that they're just as liable to believe in santa claus and fairies as believe in the idea we owe our existence to non-God forces.

There are many beliefs for which we lack evidence of the kind you seem to be referring to... including the belief that Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy don't exist. On the other hand, science has discovered a great deal about our world and our universe and how they might have formed, and as yet there are no explanations that require god.

Drew_2013 Wrote:I believe there is sufficient evidence in favor of theism over competing explanations but insufficient to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm not suggesting the approach should be abandoned.

That's why we're here in a discussion forum, to test those explanations and see what stands up to scrutiny. To date, I have not found many (if any) that are very compelling once they are put to the test. I don't expect that I ever will, but then again I felt similarly when I was a theist, and yet here I am.

Watch out! He's going to sneak in another argument from design!

(March 20, 2015 at 7:05 pm)rasetsu Wrote: Watch out! He's going to sneak in another argument from design!

He keeps talking about a "preponderance of evidence"

(March 20, 2015 at 12:54 pm)Drew_2013 Wrote: However as I have pointed out its not unreasonable to believe the universe and our existence was caused by a Creator and I have offered evidence in support of that belief. I don't attempt to disparage atheism by claiming they have no evidence in support of their belief and that they're just as liable to believe in santa claus and fairies as believe in the idea we owe our existence to non-God forces.

It's a belief. Simple as that, since there is no evidence for any creator. And atheism isn't a belief, it's a disbelief. It doesn't claim positives, it only negates the positives of theists, since - again - there's no evidence for that positive.

So you claim not to believe in Santa. Why? Can you prove with 100 percent certainty he doesn't exist? You claim not to believe in fairies and leprechauns. Why? Can you prove their non existence?

Same goes for god, creator, however you want to call that consciousness you hold responsible for the existence of the universe. It's on the same lines. There's only an empty spot you're filling with a meaning because your mind wants it to have a meaning. It's called the god of the gaps argument and if it wasn't already pretty old it would get old quickly with every repetition.

(March 19, 2015 at 5:08 pm)Drew_2013 Wrote:

(March 19, 2015 at 10:30 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: Yes, blatanty lying about us is so cute that it deserves a cute emoticon.

That's another problem...no sense of humor.

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(March 19, 2015 at 3:30 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: Wow, you really are a disingenuous little shit aren't you.

This is not the false dichotomy you keep insisting on. It's not a case of a choice between positive claims. There is a difference between claiming that I don't believe in gawd and claiming there isn't one. Figure it out.

Good grief I put the smiley face in to give the clueless a clue it was a joke...and still you don't get it.

Wow, looks like you get a lot of flak from us here. Sorry.

(March 7, 2015 at 9:45 pm)Drew_2013 Wrote: Therefore was I an atheist I would argue from those facts God doesn’t exist which ironically means I’m making a better argument than most atheists make. I wouldn't antagonize anyone, bash them over the head, question their sanity, just make the case and let it go at that.

A Trojan Horse in our midst! We are doomed, Christians, doomed!

(March 20, 2015 at 7:16 pm)The Reality Salesman Wrote:

(March 20, 2015 at 7:05 pm)rasetsu Wrote: Watch out! He's going to sneak in another argument from design!

He keeps talking about a "preponderance of evidence"

Sure it wasn't an "imponderable" sort of evidence?

(March 20, 2015 at 10:35 pm)whateverist Wrote:

(March 20, 2015 at 7:16 pm)The Reality Salesman Wrote: He keeps talking about a "preponderance of evidence"

Sure it wasn't an "imponderable" sort of evidence?

If so, I do not think It's spelled the way he thinks it is spelled.

(March 20, 2015 at 7:28 pm)Delicate Wrote:

(March 19, 2015 at 5:08 pm)Drew_2013 Wrote: That's another problem...no sense of humor.

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Good grief I put the smiley face in to give the clueless a clue it was a joke...and still you don't get it.

Wow, looks like you get a lot of flak from us here. Sorry.

Please don't try to speak for me.