If Islam is the stronger worldview, and it is capable of mobilizing more allies, there is logically nothing wrong with an eventual global triumph of Islam. Opponents of Islam should, rather than endlessly criticizing it, work on building alternatives. The fact of the matter is that one can huff and puff, but strong convictions can only be defeated by even stronger convictions. Criticism, in and of itself, will not blow the house down. Moderate skepticisim is simply not inspiring enough for most people, it lacks the kind of sex appeal that movements convinced of their own righteousness have.

Quote:If they looked into it and found that the majority of Muslim countries are extremely oppressive i'm sure they'd be less tolerant

I'm not so sure of that.  I think they know perfectly well what islamic societies are like.  It doesn't seem to matter.

(May 6, 2015 at 3:28 pm)Saxmoof Wrote: I think this is one issue where ignorance actually leads to tolerance. There are a lot of Liberals who seem to think that the Muslim world is completely fine apart from a handful of terrorists and hey, every group has a few bad apples right? so let's just lay off Islam. If they looked into it and found that the majority of Muslim countries are extremely oppressive i'm sure they'd be less tolerant

But the trouble is there's a lot of Conservatives who come to the same conclusion that the Muslim world is backwards, savage, barbaric or whatever other racially loaded word you want to throw in there without the facts who are just assuming that's the case because they have brown skin and worship a different god. This is what leads to all criticism of Islam being conflated with prejudice

I have worked alongside muslims for 11 years. I can say that yes, now I am prejudiced. I wasn't before. Prejudice means "Pre-judging"- we all do it every day with everyone we meet, actually.
 But coming back to muslims, it is very easy to "pre-judge" them. Because it is their faith that they all believe the same thing and behave in the same ways. You talk to them and after a while you know exactly what you are going to get. So don't call me ignorant because my prejudice is based on knowledge and personal experience, not ignorance.
And don't confuse my prejudice with racism because my wife is brown and all my children are brown.

(May 9, 2015 at 5:11 pm)vodkafan Wrote: So don't call me ignorant because my prejudice is based on knowledge and personal experience, not ignorance.

So leave the knowledge part out and say personal experience of a small sample group. I also have anecdotal personal experiences with all kinds of groups, but I refrain from judging all the people belonging to that same group. If I did, I would have a major problem with my fellow countrymen to begin with.

(May 9, 2015 at 5:45 pm)abaris Wrote:

(May 9, 2015 at 5:11 pm)vodkafan Wrote: So don't call me ignorant because my prejudice is based on knowledge and personal experience, not ignorance.

So leave the knowledge part out and say personal experience of a small sample group. I also have anecdotal personal experiences with all kinds of groups, but I refrain from judging all the people belonging to that same group. If I did, I would have a major problem with my fellow countrymen to begin with.

Using the same logic I could easily judge all gipsies as criminals because I've been assaulted/robbed several times and it was always gipsies... Would that be fair?

Islam fears what everyone does: a ridicule of it's ideals.

The Greeks were wise to get over it, and they progressed.

Which states precisely how dumb Christians and other religious sects are.

(May 10, 2015 at 2:41 am)Dystopia Wrote:

(May 9, 2015 at 5:45 pm)abaris Wrote: So leave the knowledge part out and say personal experience of a small sample group. I also have anecdotal personal experiences with all kinds of groups, but I refrain from judging all the people belonging to that same group. If I did, I would have a major problem with my fellow countrymen to begin with.

Using the same logic I could easily judge all gipsies as criminals because I've been assaulted/robbed several times and it was always gipsies... Would that be fair?

When I visited Italy nearly 20 years ago our tour guide pointed out gypies hanging around  the Coloseum and had the women in the group move to the center and the men form a cordon around them.  He said, as I recall, "they are not dangerous...they just want to steal your property."  So yeah.  I'd say its fair.

(May 10, 2015 at 3:07 am)Minimalist Wrote:

(May 10, 2015 at 2:41 am)Dystopia Wrote: Using the same logic I could easily judge all gipsies as criminals because I've been assaulted/robbed several times and it was always gipsies... Would that be fair?

When I visited Italy nearly 20 years ago our tour guide pointed out gypies hanging around  the Coloseum and had the women in the group move to the center and the men form a cordon around them.  He said, as I recall, "they are not dangerous...they just want to steal your property."  So yeah.  I'd say its fair.

So you were protesting against the police killing black people and now you're justifying racism on the basis of personal experience? That's a massive contradiction. 

I'm curious how you equate killing people for no reason with keeping an eye on a group who you have just been warned are non-violent thieves?

(May 10, 2015 at 11:46 am)Minimalist Wrote: I'm curious how you equate killing people for no reason with keeping an eye on a group who you have just been warned are non-violent thieves?

I keep an eye on everyone when I'm walking alone at night - Usually it is too dark to analyse people's facial features and determine whether their gipsy or not. There is no problem in being careful around a group you've been warned about, but that does not justify labelling them all as thieves/criminals. The violence or severity of the crime is irrelevant because this is about stereotypes.