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RE: Converting to Atheism?
June 4, 2015 at 11:21 am
(June 2, 2015 at 8:53 am)nicanica123 Wrote: (June 2, 2015 at 3:42 am)robvalue Wrote: WLC will poison your mind if you take him seriously. It's an honest warning. If you're interested in persueing logic and reason, dump that guy. I know he sounds convincing, that is his skill. I'm not trying to just be mean to him, I'm trying to help you and save you a lot of unnecessary confusion and stress. I've spent a long time now deep in all these issues and debates and I'm trying to share my findings with you. Him smearing atheists like that is a disgusting low tactic. Putting a little qualifier on it makes it no more honest or true.
Like I've said before, bring me any of his arguments and I'll point out what is wrong with them. I'll back this up. He is the master of hiding fallacies and tautologies inside reams and reams of clever sounding words, and playing confusing semantic games. All this in place of any actual substance.
All I know is that I have experienced my fair share on this forum. I don't even think some people read my whole post before they start their reply. I am on here trying to hash out whats going on in my head. I use my JW beliefs as a point for arguing because I want to see them logically dismantled. But I am not going to get that here. My new method is to try and learn and understand for myself that the bible is not historically accurate and facts about evolution.
But I do like WLC. I don't think that he can be excoriated here and also let the everyone else get away with their own logical fallacies. I go back to that dialogue he had with Kraus in Brisbane. Kraus used blatant dishonesty and showed his ignorance multiple times. Krauss is a scientist, not a philosopher or professional debator so I would expect him fault at times. But WLC deserves more credit Fallacy-spotting is a hobby of mine. I'm going to check out the 'Ask a JW' thread. If that's not the right one, I hope someone will let me know.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: Converting to Atheism?
June 4, 2015 at 1:05 pm
(This post was last modified: June 4, 2015 at 1:23 pm by Tonus.)
(June 2, 2015 at 9:51 am)Cato Wrote: 63. They must go from door to door weekly to gain converts
Answer: Since JWs believe that there is a maximum occupancy requirement in heaven (144,000), this mandate seems a bit self defeating. JWs cannot be sure of their salvation so why increase the rolls and further jeopardize your chances? That one has a fairly reasonable response: JWs believe that 144,000 will ascend to heaven to serve with god forever, and everyone else who is saved stays on Earth for eternity. Since the assumption is that man was created to live forever on Earth, it's reasonable to think that the vast majority would continue on that course.
It might suck to be the heaven-sent ones, when you think about it. The Earth-bound get to continue to enjoy human life, the heaven-sent have to listen to Yahweh's lame jokes forever and ever.
Item number 6 ("6. Heaven is limited only to 144,000 Jehovah's Witnesses. There are only 9,105 alive today (2006 figures)") is one that might make a member wonder, if he does the math. jwfacts.com has a page on the 144,000 that shows a number of problems with the assumptions made regarding those who are heaven-bound. It's the sort of thing that can be easily missed when you are inside the JW bubble, especially since any questioning of doctrine is discouraged.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: Converting to Atheism?
June 4, 2015 at 3:01 pm
(June 4, 2015 at 1:05 pm)Tonus Wrote: It might suck to be the heaven-sent ones, when you think about it. The Earth-bound get to continue to enjoy human life, the heaven-sent have to listen to Yahweh's lame jokes forever and ever.
"It's a cookbook!!!"
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Converting to Atheism?
June 4, 2015 at 3:23 pm
(June 4, 2015 at 1:05 pm)Tonus Wrote: It might suck to be the heaven-sent ones, when you think about it. The Earth-bound get to continue to enjoy human life, the heaven-sent have to listen to Yahweh's lame jokes forever and ever.
Yeah, Yahweh doesn't seem like much of a joker to me. Personally I figured it'd be a lot like spending eternity with an eldritch abomination; Yahweh's metrics and approach to morality and other life forms are so alien, brutal, and out of proportion, that I don't think an actual human being could relate to him. Frankly, communication would probably be impossible; even if god spoke a recognizable language his points of reference and understanding would be so alien we'd probably need an intermediary just to see sense in it.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
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RE: Converting to Atheism?
June 4, 2015 at 3:28 pm
(June 4, 2015 at 3:23 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Yeah, Yahweh doesn't seem like much of a joker to me. I was being facetious. Yahweh's idea of a joke would be to rip out your spine and look around the room, then stomp the shit out of anyone who didn't laugh hard enough.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: Converting to Atheism?
June 4, 2015 at 3:36 pm
(This post was last modified: June 4, 2015 at 3:37 pm by SteelCurtain.)
(June 4, 2015 at 5:59 am)Neimenovic Wrote: Trolling?! something tells me you're not taking rock crushing equipment seriously, gentlemen....
A dire accusation, coming from someone here only to steal company secrets.
I take my crushing so seriously that after I'm done crushing, I separate my work into three separate piles so I may admire it more.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
PM me your email address to join the Slack chat! I'll give you a taco(or five) if you join! --->There's an app and everything!<---
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RE: Converting to Atheism?
June 4, 2015 at 4:51 pm
(June 4, 2015 at 3:36 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: (June 4, 2015 at 5:59 am)Neimenovic Wrote: Trolling?! something tells me you're not taking rock crushing equipment seriously, gentlemen....
A dire accusation, coming from someone here only to steal company secrets.
I take my crushing so seriously that after I'm done crushing, I separate my work into three separate piles so I may admire it more.
I'm denying everything and sticking to my story
show off!!
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RE: Converting to Atheism?
June 4, 2015 at 5:05 pm
(This post was last modified: June 4, 2015 at 5:11 pm by Exian.)
I'm so serious about rock crushing that I evoke a higher power to both sort the rocks and drum up business.
ETA: I think I meant "invoke", but I shall leave it as a reminder of my brainfarts and idiocy.
I can't remember where this verse is from, I think it got removed from canon:
"I don't hang around with mostly men because I'm gay. It's because men are better than women. Better trained, better equipped...better. Just better! I'm not gay."
For context, this is the previous verse:
"Hi Jesus" -robvalue
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RE: Converting to Atheism?
June 4, 2015 at 8:46 pm
Well, if you can evoke a higher power, you are a boss.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
PM me your email address to join the Slack chat! I'll give you a taco(or five) if you join! --->There's an app and everything!<---
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RE: Converting to Atheism?
June 4, 2015 at 8:54 pm
I'm afraid it's just a lie to push product. I'll stoop, I don't even care.
I can't remember where this verse is from, I think it got removed from canon:
"I don't hang around with mostly men because I'm gay. It's because men are better than women. Better trained, better equipped...better. Just better! I'm not gay."
For context, this is the previous verse:
"Hi Jesus" -robvalue
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