The main idea is right, but the detail is not quite right. The sun may not be a giant, but it is probably above average in mass. The milky way is not a minor galaxy. It is the most massive body in the local cluster and would be far above average even in a supercluster.

(October 12, 2010 at 5:16 am)Chuck Wrote: The main idea is right, but the detail is not quite right. The sun may not be a giant, but it is probably above average in mass. The milky way is not a minor galaxy. It is the most massive body in the local cluster and would be far above average even in a supercluster.

IIRC there is a very high proportion of red dwarfs in the galaxy so indeed, we probably are above average. Perhaps he meant if you compare biggest with smallest then we are relatively small.

Still, the idea is nice, but one of the problems with it is that the religious types often can't (or unwilling) to really contemplate the size of the universe. Those that i know who can tend to be the more deist types rather than theist. The theist word view really doesn't fit in with the real size of the universe... but there again, not surprising when you consider it was invented back when people still thought that the earth was at the center of the universe and did not know stars were other suns.

You can forgive our ancestors who held these beliefs... its a bit hard to forgive those who willingly remain ignorant of what we know today.

Anyone who argues like that is an idiot.
All I can say is Genesis 1:1
For what ever reason I exist, I dont know why, perhaps its fate? or luck? I dont know...

(October 12, 2010 at 6:23 am)solja247 Wrote: Anyone who argues like that is an idiot.
All I can say is Genesis 1:1
For what ever reason I exist, I dont know why, perhaps its fate? or luck? I dont know...

Probably bad luck.

It never ceases to amaze me how christians throw up bible quotes that support their ridiculous beliefs even when they're staring the contradictry truth in the face. At what point in human history did it become acceptable to use religion as a crutch to prop up antagonism? really? Was it when religion started being less about social harmony and ideas and more about social control in ohh say around 312AD?

Gaw damn christians >:/

Nero had the right idea. Definately. As did Pharaoh Merneptah with the Hebrews.

EDIT

Quote:As did Pharaoh Merneptah with the Hebrews.

Let me elaborate on that... i don't wish christians any personal harm, they can do as they please. But I resent them raising their children to believe the same destructive nonsense and pollute another generation.

Quote:Probably bad luck.

Perhaps, who really knows?

Quote:It never ceases to amaze me how christians throw up bible quotes that support their ridiculous beliefs

I dont see how its ridiculous? Either God created the world, or He didnt. Genesis 1:1 sums up my logical beliefs well.
Note: Both sides are logical, but go out on a limb...

Richard Dawkins in a debate with John Lennox said how the Bible has made no accurate predictions, no real prophecies (I'm paraphrasing by the way). Then John Lennox said that it did make an astounding and excellent prediction (all my quoting on this post is paraphrased): A prediction that the universe had a beginning. Which agrees with modern science.

I love Dawkins response. He says how it's not exactly an amazing prediciton either the universe had a beginning or it didn't.

That's the best Christianity can do? Getting a coin flip right?

And even then..... where did the big bang come from? If you count the beginning of time as the beginning then yes there's a beginning but that's trivial because "beginning" makes so sense before time.

Quote:Richard Dawkins in a debate with John Lennox said how the Bible has made no accurate predictions, no real prophecies (I'm paraphrasing by the way). Then John Lennox said that it did make an astounding and excellent prediction (all my quoting on this post is paraphrased): A prediction that the universe had a beginning. Which agrees with modern science.

I dont know why Lennox said that, all I could do is shake my head and go, 'No, thats not right.'

Quote:I love Dawkins response. He says how it's not exactly an amazing prediciton either the universe had a beginning or it didn't.

A lot of other religions back then thought the world didnt have a beginning, it just went in cycles...
So perhaps it was incredible that the Bible does talk about a beginning...

Quote:Nero had the right idea. Definately. As did Pharaoh Merneptah with the Hebrews.

Nero never heard of xtians. That was all a much later invention.

Merneptah is a much different case. The word commonly cited as being "Israel" is actually "Isirir" and the word appears no where else in the entire corpus of Egyptian writing so we really do not know what it meant in ancient Egyptian.

(October 12, 2010 at 8:10 am)solja247 Wrote: A lot of other religions back then thought the world didnt have a beginning, it just went in cycles...
So perhaps it was incredible that the Bible does talk about a beginning...

Those other religions got it absolutely right. The world does indeed exist in cycles, perhaps the universe does as well...

Suns grow and burn, planets form life around them, suns decay and fade out, planets die around them...

The polytheists always got it right in their own way; the egyptians for one said "if you're looking for heaven (truth and perfection) observe nature". The natural world exists in a state of sustainablity, natural harmony and indeed, total perfection.. to emulate nature and base a society upon it is a state of mind or philosophy which is still unrivaled by any modern or medival ideology. The fact that we as humans still think we're above it all stems from the idea that god made the world for us, and made the animals to slaughter them. Even if you think our modern industrial world is much better than ancient egypt, consider that the ancient world existed for hundreds of thousands of years, and that we in the modern world have been at our peak for maybe 60 years and we've already nearly destroyed the planet. Its a HUGE example of short term greed (over 60 years) which is going to cost us more than we know in the long term. And that.. for all you capitalists.. is called unstainable business.

I'm quite disheartened -talking to atheists on here- that they still display the same selfish, short term benefit/long term disadvantage and destructive individualistic mentality and behaviour patterns as the christians. I mean, once you've overcome their belief that "man is better than nature" and "god made the world for us", surely your mind begins to deal with the concept that man is in fact a part of the natural world, and that man should obey it.. surely?

Or put it this way... my favorite quote Malcolm X- if you dont stand for something you fall for anything- right? If you denounce religion, but then refuse to do anything more such as fix the damage its caused, then you'll still find that you're a victim of it and that these christians.. despite their sheer stupidity.. have ultimately beaten you.

Wake the fuck up.................