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RE: Helpful hints for christians
October 12, 2015 at 2:09 pm
(October 12, 2015 at 2:05 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: (October 12, 2015 at 11:17 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: Naturalism doesn't exclude the role of meaning or significance. It just doesn't provide a ready-made explanation for them. But then, neither do the alternatives which basically boil down to, "it's magic." And yet naturalists attempt to explain away intentionally at every turn I. e. As. A causally inert illusion of physical brain processes.
Agreed Chad. Naturalism does not include intentionality and has no room for it. Naturalism has no meaning or purpose, just blind unguided processes with no regard. "Meaning" and "purpose" are human constructs derived from processes in the brain (ironically that which is a consequence of said Naturalism) and as you point out, they must be illusory constructs.
We are not made happy by what we acquire but by what we appreciate.
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RE: Helpful hints for christians
October 12, 2015 at 3:33 pm
(October 12, 2015 at 2:09 pm)lkingpinl Wrote: (October 12, 2015 at 2:05 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: And yet naturalists attempt to explain away intentionally at every turn I. e. As. A causally inert illusion of physical brain processes.
Agreed Chad. Naturalism does not include intentionality and has no room for it. Naturalism has no meaning or purpose, just blind unguided processes with no regard. "Meaning" and "purpose" are human constructs derived from processes in the brain (ironically that which is a consequence of said Naturalism) and as you point out, they must be illusory constructs.
QFT! 
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
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RE: Helpful hints for christians
October 12, 2015 at 4:15 pm
(This post was last modified: October 12, 2015 at 4:16 pm by Cyberman.)
(October 12, 2015 at 9:45 am)ChadWooters Wrote: (October 12, 2015 at 8:28 am)Chad32 Wrote: Being an atheist doesn't make you smart, but it is one hurdle out of the way.
And from my perspective ruling out transcendent causes in favor of naturalism while maintaining a commitment to intentionality requires massive logical inconsistencies.
Except that some of us don't rule such things out, we just don't see any justification for ruling them in.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Helpful hints for christians
October 12, 2015 at 4:17 pm
(October 12, 2015 at 4:15 pm)Stimbo Wrote: (October 12, 2015 at 9:45 am)ChadWooters Wrote: And from my perspective ruling out transcendent causes in favor of naturalism while maintaining a commitment to intentionality requires massive logical inconsistencies.
Except that some of us don't rule such things out, we just don't see any justification for ruling them in.
There's nothing wrong with that.
We are not made happy by what we acquire but by what we appreciate.
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RE: Helpful hints for christians
October 12, 2015 at 5:59 pm
(October 12, 2015 at 4:15 pm)Stimbo Wrote: (October 12, 2015 at 9:45 am)ChadWooters Wrote: And from my perspective ruling out transcendent causes in favor of naturalism while maintaining a commitment to intentionality requires massive logical inconsistencies.
Except that some of us don't rule such things out, we just don't see any justification for ruling them in. My larger point was this. I have a certain perspective based on applying reason to my experiences and for that reason I maintain a metaphysical stance that entails some kind of transcendental realism that is consistent with God as traditionally conceived by Christian thinkers. I object to the idea that simply holding atheistic views means that someone is more logical. Maybe I am wrong but I hope I'm wrong for the right reasons as opposed to being right for the wrong ones.
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RE: Helpful hints for christians
October 12, 2015 at 6:13 pm
(This post was last modified: October 12, 2015 at 6:13 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(October 12, 2015 at 2:05 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: (October 12, 2015 at 11:17 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: Naturalism doesn't exclude the role of meaning or significance. It just doesn't provide a ready-made explanation for them. But then, neither do the alternatives which basically boil down to, "it's magic." And yet naturalists attempt to explain away intentionally at every turn I. e. As. A causally inert illusion of physical brain processes.
Please tell me you don't believe in intelligent design... what the fuck could you have against naturalism? You do believe in evolution and think irreducibility is bullshit right?
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RE: Helpful hints for christians
October 12, 2015 at 6:15 pm
(October 11, 2015 at 11:17 pm)dyresand Wrote: If you are talking with a atheist being online or in person remember this.
1. Do not badger us about god and or jesus
2. Do no waste your time preaching to us
3. Do not use hell as a means to make us believe in what you do
4. We get that you want to save us from some external torment but don't bother.
5. Don't be a asshole no one like christian assholes..
6. Atheists please do not say we are atheists because we love to sin because on your end it makes you guys look like hypocrites
7. Don't say were immoral because on your end it looks bad if you need the bible to give you morals. 8. We respond best to offers of alcohol, sex, or pizza.
Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:
"You did WHAT? With WHO? WHERE???"
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RE: Helpful hints for christians
October 12, 2015 at 6:17 pm
(This post was last modified: October 12, 2015 at 6:17 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
I'll take all three please. Often in that order.
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RE: Helpful hints for christians
October 13, 2015 at 1:43 pm
(This post was last modified: October 13, 2015 at 1:56 pm by Neo-Scholastic.
Edit Reason: grammar
)
(October 12, 2015 at 6:13 pm)Evie Wrote: (October 12, 2015 at 2:05 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: And yet naturalists attempt to explain away intentionally at every turn I. e. As. A causally inert illusion of physical brain processes.
Please tell me you don't believe in intelligent design... what the fuck could you have against naturalism? You do believe in evolution and think irreducibility is bullshit right?
I don't believe in evolution; I accept the theories of common descent and natural selection based on empirical observations. What I do not accept is complete exclusion of teleology from the mechanisms of change. It appears that evolutionary pressures tend to converge on similar forms across species lines. For example the structure of human and octopus eyes, echo location in both bats and whales, etc. Chance seems to favor certain solutions.
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RE: Helpful hints for christians
October 13, 2015 at 1:47 pm
(This post was last modified: October 13, 2015 at 1:49 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Why? Can you point to an example of design or purpose in that mechanism(s)? You really only need one to justify a refusal to accept complete exclusion. Shouldn't be too difficult. What makes you think that teleology is a factor in biological evolution?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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