Transexuals

[TheRocketSurgeon]

I should also add that there have been some court victories for the trans population, as courts are not entirely immune to the explanations given by scientists and other professionals on the subject, to require prisons to allow for continuing hormone treatments if they were on them, under the Cruel and Unusual Punishment clause, since to deny them causes major damage and permanent problems. That has not stopped some states (Georgia, for instance: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/13...17413.html) from doing it anyway.

[Drich]

... double

[Drich]

double double...

[Brian37]

It's also worth pointing out what going to jail for a pre-op transsexual means in Alabama.

It won't be a woman's jail, it will be a man's jail. So either the transsexual will have to spend their entire time in solitary confinement or will be at of risk rape on a daily basis.

To be quite frank, we need to fucking do something to reduce prison rape.  Jails need to be held accountable when it happens under their watch.

All prison violence. The problem with simply locking people up, especially non violent people, is that they get put into a meat grinder and end up coming out worse and possibly more violent.

We should give prisoners educations and also teach them conflict resolution skills. On top of separating the violent and mentally ill from each other. As it stands now prisons are really nothing more than human warehouses that do nothing to reduce the violence of those who eventually get out.

[Drich]

To be quite frank, we need to fucking do something to reduce prison rape.  Jails need to be held accountable when it happens under their watch.

All prison violence. The problem with simply locking people up, especially non violent people, is that they get put into a meat grinder and end up coming out worse and possibly more violent.

We should give prisoners educations and also teach them conflict resolution skills. On top of separating the violent and mentally ill from each other. As it stands now prisons are really nothing more than human warehouses that do nothing to reduce the violence of those who eventually get out.

My dad just retired from a 30 career of teaching this past Tuesday. 10 to 15 years was spent doing this very thing. In the beginning he thought as you do. So he spent 1/2 his working life writing grants and spending millions of state and federal dollars, testing and trying to prefect this program. Bottom line most came back. Either to his facility or other programs. The problem? the people who frequent correctional facilities do not want your life. Do not want to live in your society, nor by your rules. No amount of talking it out is going to change that.

You from a structured society, will ever be able to offer the life they want, As it is not just about just access to easy to claim material goods, because many are in jail for simply hurting or killing others for trivial reasons.

We are not all the same. What would help you will not help someone who has been built or bred with a warrior's spirit.

If you want to truly make reforms we must first understand we are not all created equal. Meaning some are intelectually heavy, while others are emotionally strong and others still are workers and we have warriors. We must learn/relearn how to classify ourselves and address punishment and education based on our strengths and weaknesses.

The problem we have is the 'intellectuals' have taken control for far too long and built infrastructure (Schools prisions Jobs) based off their strengths and weaknesses. So to send a warrior to an intellectual's jail cell simply breeds more corrupt warriors. Or to send a worker to the intelectual's school breeds a guy who can only qualify for a low paying job.  Why? because well meaning douche bags want to live by a flawed ideology that "All men are created equal" when clearly we are not.

If you want real change then we have to start from the ground up, meaning first things first; we have to admit to ourselves that we are not all equals. Doesn't mean one is better, it simply means we are not all the same. Then we must first start by training our next gens in accordance with their strengths, and then address the prison program.

For them we must lift the "cruel and unusual" and narrowly define the "spirit of torture" this term is supposed to eliminate, and then structure life training for those in Prison in accordance to their lead personality trait. I keep referencing warriors because I know this works. Ft. Leavenworth prison is a military run prison for the worst of the worst. Everyone in there is a highly trained killing machine, yet all adhere to strict military discipline and guidelines even in incarceration. why? because everyone in there is a purposed built warrior and they respond to a warrior discipline, code, and lifestyle. They have purpose and meaning.

What the 'intellectual society' has forgotten is that men derive self worth and personal identity from what they do. It becomes part and parcel to who they are. Take that away or set a bar too high for a young man to clear (like say a collage degree when he knows high schools may not be possible) then you take purpose and meaning from this man. You take his identity, his self worth. So for those who are lost and did not have a father who saw and encouraged a young man's strengths we as a state must subdivide and train these men in accordance to their strengths. Most men in jail are warriors or workers who never found themselves on the right side of their strengths.

or we can just keep throwing good money after bad trying to pretend we are all the same and the same broad brush tactics that work in Germany can also work here.

[I_am_not_mafia]

My dad just retired from a 30 career of teaching this past Tuesday. 10 to 15 years was spent doing this very thing. In the beginning he thought as you do. So he spent 1/2 his working life writing grants and spending millions of state and federal dollars, testing and trying to prefect this program. Bottom line most came back. Either to his facility or other programs. The problem? the people who frequent correctional facilities do not want your life. Do not want to live in your society, nor by your rules. No amount of talking it out is going to change that.

You from a structured society, will ever be able to offer the life they want, As it is not just about just access to easy to claim material goods, because many are in jail for simply hurting or killing others for trivial reasons.

We are not all the same. What would help you will not help someone who has been built or bred with a warrior's spirit.

If you want to truly make reforms we must first understand we are not all created equal. Meaning some are intelectually heavy, while others are emotionally strong and others still are workers and we have warriors. We must learn/relearn how to classify ourselves and address punishment and education based on our strengths and weaknesses.

The problem we have is the 'intellectuals' have taken control for far too long and built infrastructure (Schools prisions Jobs) based off their strengths and weaknesses. So to send a warrior to an intellectual's jail cell simply breeds more corrupt warriors. Or to send a worker to the intelectual's school breeds a guy who can only qualify for a low paying job.  Why? because well meaning douche bags want to live by a flawed ideology that "All men are created equal" when clearly we are not.

If you want real change then we have to start from the ground up, meaning first things first; we have to admit to ourselves that we are not all equals. Doesn't mean one is better, it simply means we are not all the same. Then we must first start by training our next gens in accordance with their strengths, and then address the prison program.

For them we must lift the "cruel and unusual" and narrowly define the "spirit of torture" this term is supposed to eliminate, and then structure life training for those in Prison in accordance to their lead personality trait. I keep referencing warriors because I know this works. Ft. Leavenworth prison is a military run prison for the worst of the worst. Everyone in there is a highly trained killing machine, yet all adhere to strict military discipline and guidelines even in incarceration. why? because everyone in there is a purposed built warrior and they respond to a warrior discipline, code, and lifestyle. They have purpose and meaning.

What the 'intellectual society' has forgotten is that men derive self worth and personal identity from what they do. It becomes part and parcel to who they are. Take that away or set a bar too high for a young man to clear (like say a collage degree when he knows high schools may not be possible) then you take purpose and meaning from this man. You take his identity, his self worth. So for those who are lost and did not have a father who saw and encouraged a young man's strengths we as a state must subdivide and train these men in accordance to their strengths. Most men in jail are warriors or workers who never found themselves on the right side of their strengths.

or we can just keep throwing good money after bad trying to pretend we are all the same and the same broad brush tactics that work in Germany can also work here.

Scandinavia would disagree with you.

[Brian37]

All prison violence. The problem with simply locking people up, especially non violent people, is that they get put into a meat grinder and end up coming out worse and possibly more violent.

We should give prisoners educations and also teach them conflict resolution skills. On top of separating the violent and mentally ill from each other. As it stands now prisons are really nothing more than human warehouses that do nothing to reduce the violence of those who eventually get out.

My dad just retired from a 30 career of teaching this past Tuesday. 10 to 15 years was spent doing this very thing. In the beginning he thought as you do. So he spent 1/2 his working life writing grants and spending millions of state and federal dollars, testing and trying to prefect this program. Bottom line most came back. Either to his facility or other programs. The problem? the people who frequent correctional facilities do not want your life. Do not want to live in your society, nor by your rules. No amount of talking it out is going to change that.

You from a structured society, will ever be able to offer the life they want, As it is not just about just access to easy to claim material goods, because many are in jail for simply hurting or killing others for trivial reasons.

We are not all the same. What would help you will not help someone who has been built or bred with a warrior's spirit.

If you want to truly make reforms we must first understand we are not all created equal. Meaning some are intelectually heavy, while others are emotionally strong and others still are workers and we have warriors. We must learn/relearn how to classify ourselves and address punishment and education based on our strengths and weaknesses.

The problem we have is the 'intellectuals' have taken control for far too long and built infrastructure (Schools prisions Jobs) based off their strengths and weaknesses. So to send a warrior to an intellectual's jail cell simply breeds more corrupt warriors. Or to send a worker to the intelectual's school breeds a guy who can only qualify for a low paying job.  Why? because well meaning douche bags want to live by a flawed ideology that "All men are created equal" when clearly we are not.

If you want real change then we have to start from the ground up, meaning first things first; we have to admit to ourselves that we are not all equals. Doesn't mean one is better, it simply means we are not all the same. Then we must first start by training our next gens in accordance with their strengths, and then address the prison program.

For them we must lift the "cruel and unusual" and narrowly define the "spirit of torture" this term is supposed to eliminate, and then structure life training for those in Prison in accordance to their lead personality trait. I keep referencing warriors because I know this works. Ft. Leavenworth prison is a military run prison for the worst of the worst. Everyone in there is a highly trained killing machine, yet all adhere to strict military discipline and guidelines even in incarceration. why? because everyone in there is a purposed built warrior and they respond to a warrior discipline, code, and lifestyle. They have purpose and meaning.

What the 'intellectual society' has forgotten is that men derive self worth and personal identity from what they do. It becomes part and parcel to who they are. Take that away or set a bar too high for a young man to clear (like say a collage degree when he knows high schools may not be possible) then you take purpose and meaning from this man. You take his identity, his self worth. So for those who are lost and did not have a father who saw and encouraged a young man's strengths we as a state must subdivide and train these men in accordance to their strengths. Most men in jail are warriors or workers who never found themselves on the right side of their strengths.

or we can just keep throwing good money after bad trying to pretend we are all the same and the same broad brush tactics that work in Germany can also work here.

You are right, we are not the same. There is good logic, and bad logic. Most humans have a variety of delusions both religious and non religious. But we are certainly the same in the fact that nobody lives forever. Not the poor, not the rich not friend or foe. Sorry Drich, but you are NOT better than me or even many who have spent time in prison, I haven't. All 7 billion humans are just that, humans. Not super humans with magic powers, and your label doesn't make you superior to me. I am sorry if that bothers you, but that is your baggage, not mine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PN5JJDh78I

[TheRocketSurgeon]

Meh, I get Drich's point, there, actually. Many guys resent the educational system and everything about it-- frankly, it's too late for many of them. But there are also MANY MANY MANY prisoners who are there for non-violent crimes, or whose violence was a result of growing up in a rotten ghetto (and by rotten, I mean our culture deliberately created those ghettos and then left them to rot), with no prospects of legitimate, meaningful education or work. In that dog-eat-dog world, they ate another dog, and now they're being punished for it. Further, these guys are not completely dumb; they know that when they get out, with years of missing work-experience (prison jobs count for nothing on the streets) and a Felon label, they're going to be going right back to where they were, before-- so what's the point? It's often made worse by a Parole system that forces them to (even against their will) return to their old neighborhoods, and stay there, even if they're reporting to the officer that they are in danger of re-offending due to the influences around them. I've seen it over and over again, in Parole Violation reports I've read from inmates who had been returned to the prison after trying desperately to get away from The Life™. They want something else, but it is denied to them at every turn... hardly surprising, then, that so many give up and become intransigent.

A big part of the problem is that, all their life, they've gotten the message that the world is about who can dominate whom, so to send them to prison where they are treated like absolute shit, surrounded by the ultimate alpha-hierarchical structure, only reinforces that attitude.

So while I agree with you, Drich, that education is not the only key to this problem (which is why we're discussing several of the problems), it's essential that we restructure the way we treat prisoners. The current system simply does not work, except to keep troublemakers "out of sight, out of mind" for as long as possible... and usually, it makes them far worse than they were when they went in, even if it's just PTSD and other psychological issues that result from the inhuman treatment and constant danger, over the course of years.

Finally, I want you to pay very, very close attention to this statement: EQUAL DOES NOT MEAN "THE SAME", when speaking of humans, at least. It means "the same value". When we say we want equality, or fairer treatment of people, we are not saying we expect identical people. It's part of why we get so pissed off at you (and those like you) who tell us things like, "Well how can you say you're for equality when you're trying to give special rights/dispensations to _(insert minority or special needs group here)_?"

No one here fails to recognize that not everyone is capable of becoming a surgeon, or even graduating high school, or even of being non-violent and acting in a civilized manner. That does not mean anything *at all* when it comes to how we treat them, and what we do to try to give people who do want to turn their lives around an opportunity to do so.

[Drich]

I thought I made it perfectly clear that treating prisoners differently is at the core of change I think we need. We should treat them in accordance to how they are classified. A worker should have different rewards and discipline frame work than an intellectual or warrior. We need people to study these personality default traits and find the best way to reward and discipline people who fall into those categories.

Workers need to be put to work, Warriors need to train and fight, the intellectuals need to study and maybe work in the legal system like you did. The system needs to be changed without a doubt, all I am saying is no broad brush strokes will make a quick fix here. There will not be a single solution as we are all different types of people. We need to address incarceration on that level, and not just toe the line.

[Drich]

As far as 'equality' is concerned most people are too stupid to understand that things can be different and yet still equal. My experience has been when dealing with 'equal rights' types. they don't actually want equal rights they want superiority, and when they get it, they want to treat everyone else unfairly. To them that is what equality is. (a turn to be the asshole boss)

What I am suggesting is equality based on your specific personality/comprehension. which will look different on the outside, but will be made to fit who you are.

"snow flakes"/People who don't want to fit into any of the primary catagories should be made to rot in prision as people do now till they conform to how ever they test out.