Cenk Uyguy gets it

[Excited Penguin]

I am pretty sure you're making a mistake there. Sam wouldn't ban you from his twitter channel in a million years, and there's no one else running it but him.

Bullshit, I have been blocked by the following page.

https://twitter.com/SamHarrisOrg

If that is not owned by him, or run by him, then he has made no demands as to the people who run it as to allow everyone to post. I could give a shit less in any case because it is a private page and those who run it just like this one set the rules in any case.

But I can tell you if you push him on Buddhism he has gotten testy about it. Many of his fans most certainly do.

Sorry, I don't see him banning people. I'm pretty sure he doesn't give two fucks about you. He gets thousands of replies weekly, and he doesn't hire any staff for his twitter channel AFAIK. It must have just been some sort of mix-up from twitter instead.

[Brian37]

I agree with Harris on this point : Regardless of the sociopolitical variables, ideas alone are capable of inspiring people to action. For better or worse.

Chenk wasn't disagreeing with that one bit. The only part I would say is that to call it a generalization in every case is wrong, and that I would disagree with. But I don't think Bill or Sam or Chenk are on completely different sides in any case. Even Sam has called Trump nuts. I think Chenk would agree.

Listen to this video, Sam isn't putting the word "dangerous" on the same pin I am, but we are both in agreement that he is dangerous, and in the following video Sam even says, which even Shark Tank host has said about Trump, which is what sane people respond regardless of party, "What the fuck?" Meaning the as Sam has put it, "bluster and bombast" demonstrates nothing deep. 

I don't think Trump is a liberal in the least, I do think he is merely an opportunist.

I would disagree with Sam in saying that his Jerry Springer act, is just an act. It is, but the problem is regardless it holds impact, and when a politicians words hold that much impact, which Trump has proven, it is should no longer be treated as a mere "act" even if the politician himself wants to make excuses and say "I was just joking". 

It is no better an argument to me than when Christians claim Hitler was an atheist. I could give a shit less if he was, it is still the same political tactic of playing off hate and fear and hyper nationalism, and Hitler too was bombastic and had really nothing more than an act too, but it was an act people unfortunately took seriously. So I do take issue with Sam in this video downplaying the word "demagoguery" in describing Trump. But regardless we still agree that Trump is dangerous, we would disagree on what it is that is most important that defines that rightful conclusion.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Az1JyDJ_iKU

[Brian37]

Bullshit, I have been blocked by the following page.

https://twitter.com/SamHarrisOrg

If that is not owned by him, or run by him, then he has made no demands as to the people who run it as to allow everyone to post. I could give a shit less in any case because it is a private page and those who run it just like this one set the rules in any case.

But I can tell you if you push him on Buddhism he has gotten testy about it. Many of his fans most certainly do.

Sorry, I don't see him banning people. I'm pretty sure he doesn't give two fucks about you. He gets thousands of replies weekly, and he doesn't hire any staff for his twitter channel AFAIK. It must have just been some sort of mix-up from twitter instead.

I never said he gave a shit about me, where did I even claim he should? Now you are not on my end and you don't have access to my password or account. And you assume a very busy writer and scientist spends every waking hour running a twitter page? That is fucking absurd. Now if you want someone obsessed with twitter, try Trump.

I didn't say he personally blocked me, but I can tell you I cannot access that page. You want to accuse me of lying? Fuck you. No mixup, it has the official blue checkmark. Not a copy or fake page.

[CapnAwesome]

The problem with 'it's a cultural thing' is that you see similar problems across the Muslim world, which extends to many different cultures. All of them have problems with the oppression of women, all of them have problems with the repression of free speech, all of them have theocratic elements. To try to seperate culture from religion is to ignore that Islam have a profound and deep effect on the culture itself and that in the middle east especially, the culture stems from Islam as much as Islam stems from the culture.

I'll never understand left wing people like Cenk defending an extreme right wing ideology like Islam.

Just because someone doesn't cuss like Bill Maher does not mean they advocate religious violence. That is bullshit. I do think Ben is too sensitive but when you reach the level of scapegoating demagoguery like Trump that is unacceptable.

As usual, I don't know what you are talking about or who you are replying to. You think I'm saying Ben Affleck is advocating religious violence in that post? What??

[GrandizerII]

So pretty much ad hominem attack. You won't address (or even listen to) what he said, so you'll attack his character instead.

You're on Cenk's "side" in that debate?


I'm really sorry for saying this, but that makes you a complete idiot. I'm serious.

No, you're not sorry. You're just a phony.

[abaris]

Here is a one on one between Cenk and Harris. Lengthy but more in depth. I think Harris holds his own in this one :

Which only goes to show that everyone cheers their own candidates corner. In my case, watching the whole three hours about a year ago, my negative opinion on Harris just got stronger. I watched it because I was looking for some redeeming factor, which I didn't find. So, three hours of my life I never will get back.

[Brian37]

Probably somewhere like Albania. (snip) Then it also comes down to which Fiqh or whether there is any Sharia at all.

Two issues worthy of adressing without turning them into seperate quotes.

First, Albania is an excellent example of archaic culture meeting religion. There's a very old culture - for lack of a better word - of honor killings in certain parts of the country. Generations of different clans fight each other because of some insult someone committed, maybe decades or even centuries ago. It's a huge problem for the legal authorities. That's not religious at all, but it's often intermingled.

Secondly, Sharia. Most people in the West perceive it as punitive in an archaic way. Yet Sharia law, in it's vast majority, isn't punitive at all. It's about settling border disputes and property issues at a very local level. Such as farmers disputing over a stretch of land or over the price of a goat or a cow. And it bears mentioning that it is probably older than the Quran, since it's a tribal law geared at the regional customs, which was one of nomadic and semi nomadic peoples moving about.

Honor killings exist in every religion to a greater or lesser degree. The media focusing on Islam only means they get more attention, and yes, it can be argued that they have a bigger problem. But the purity of the female is a motif worldwide and sexism regardless of murder is the root of honor killings. Same goes with genital mutilation. It is wrong to attack Islam alone, while true, it isn't the only religion that does it. Jews and Christians mutilate males, and even in some nations in Africa even Christians mutilate females for purity reasons. 

It was not that long ago that marital rape was acceptable in America. And if you listen to some of our republicans they still blame the victim and have even said it was God's plan. 

But you brought up a very important point "tribal law geared to the regional customs".  The problem with humans worldwide left or right, is that most don't understand human evolution on a planetary scale. We don't want to face that we are the same species. We also don't want to face that we are not the center of the planet. And we don't want to face that we evolved to defend that which we are familiar with, and that is a vast majority local. "Tribal" is a artificial word, it does exist of course, but it is really an ignorance of biological evolution in that humans evolved to be social.

[Excited Penguin]

You're on Cenk's "side" in that debate?


I'm really sorry for saying this, but that makes you a complete idiot. I'm serious.

No, you're not sorry. You're just a phony.

It sounded way friendlier in my head. Now I'm really sorry.

[Jesster]

No, you're not sorry. You're just a phony.

It sounded way friendlier in my head. Now I'm really sorry.

Wait, I think I get the joke now. I award you a single chuckle.

[Aroura]

I really like Sam Harris on some topics, but I agree that on this one, he is misguided.
Thanks for sharing the video!