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"Then can you point me to another God that is all powerful, all knowing, omnipresent, has a divine nature that cannot contradict itself, created everything, owns His creations, upholds His creation in a predictable manner, gave man dominion over the rest of creation, gave man absolute moral codes to live by, instructs man to use his mind, instructs man to investigate His creation, is all good in nature, and is all just in nature?"
We haven't even got one if we do include your god. By YOUR interpretation, forgiveness, and apologetics, he can be these things to YOU, but not persuasively to someone of any other faith or any atheist of whom I am aware.
"Then can you point me to another God that is all powerful, all knowing, omnipresent, has a divine nature that cannot contradict itself, created everything, owns His creations, upholds His creation in a predictable manner, gave man dominion over the rest of creation, gave man absolute moral codes to live by, instructs man to use his mind, instructs man to investigate His creation, is all good in nature, and is all just in nature?"
We haven't even got one if we do include your god. By YOUR interpretation, forgiveness, and apologetics, he can be these things to YOU, but not persuasively to someone of any other faith or any atheist of whom I am aware.
Well only because some people try to judge the ultimate standard (God) by some other man-made ultimate standard. However, what I gave was how scripture describes the God of the Bible, so that is what we will go with for the purpose of the discussion. Rhythm apparently thinks that Gods like the God of the Bible are a dime a dozen, I happen to think they are quite rare:-)
That being said, I have to go for my run, so until tomorrow my teacher (English teacher?) friend.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(June 30, 2011 at 8:15 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: You don’t agree that when Christians take this same approach we get criticized?
Well, the difference here is many Christians claim absolute knowledge on things that atheists are willing to say they don't know. I think if you do make a claim of knowledge you need to back it up. So if you ask me a specific question, like why I do not believe in the soul, I can back that up. Such a belief though is not a result of being an atheist, while most of Christians' beliefs are direct results of being Christian. That is the main point I'm trying to make. My worldview is not a result of being an atheist, but I am an atheist simply because of my view on religion.
Statler Waldorf Wrote:I feel like if you are going to make assumptions, and use these assumptions to gain knowledge, your worldview needs to provide a basis for these assumptions. You don’t agree?
This assumes that the foundation for my search for knowledge is because I am an atheist, but the only thing being an atheist has to do with my understanding is I do not subscribe the unknowable to God.
Statler Waldorf Wrote:It seems more like we all agree these things are necessary in order to know anything, but the only worldview that seems to have a justification for these assumptions is the theistic one (mono-theistic at that). When you have to borrow from someone else’s worldview in order to argue against it, it is a sign that your worldview is deficient. Remember, I am just assuming you have an atheistic worldview because you are an atheist. It might help if you clarified exactly what your worldview is.
See this is just it, I don't have a worldview. I have no overriding beliefs that dictate how I interpret the cosmos as a whole except for what I mentioned before. I try to interpret each bit of information on its own merits.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
Quote:Well only because some people try to judge the ultimate standard (God)
Once again, produce evidence that your 'god' is any more real than those listed a couple of posts above....you know, the ones you will go to your grave swearing are "false."
Quote:Well only because some people try to judge the ultimate standard (God)
Once again, produce evidence that your 'god' is any more real than those listed a couple of posts above....you know, the ones you will go to your grave swearing are "false."
He won't, he can't. He does want us to believe because he believes and doesn't like it that we don't.
It’s not my job to do your fact finding for you. You did kind of pull a fast one here though. Many of the names are different names for the same God. In fact, the God of the Bible appears numerous times on this list, Yahweh, God, God the Father, Jehovah, and Jesus to name a few. You’ll notice that just being the Creator is not enough, which of these gods, if any, has the same nature and attributes as the God of the Bible?
(July 1, 2011 at 1:10 am)FaithNoMore Wrote:
Well, the difference here is many Christians claim absolute knowledge on things that atheists are willing to say they don't know. I think if you do make a claim of knowledge you need to back it up. So if you ask me a specific question, like why I do not believe in the soul, I can back that up. Such a belief though is not a result of being an atheist, while most of Christians' beliefs are direct results of being Christian. That is the main point I'm trying to make. My worldview is not a result of being an atheist, but I am an atheist simply because of my view on religion.
I personally don’t know any Christians who claim to have absolute knowledge, we seem to all believe that the curse does affect are abilities.
Quote:
This assumes that the foundation for my search for knowledge is because I am an atheist, but the only thing being an atheist has to do with my understanding is I do not subscribe the unknowable to God.
Actually, the point I am trying to make is that the foundations for your search for knowledge are in spite of your atheism, not because of it. I am saying that if there really was no God, knowledge would be impossible because the preconditions for knowledge depend on God.
Quote: See this is just it, I don't have a worldview. I have no overriding beliefs that dictate how I interpret the cosmos as a whole except for what I mentioned before. I try to interpret each bit of information on its own merits.
Maybe we are not defining worldview the same here, everyone has one. Interpreting each bit of information on its own merits would be part of your worldview. I also imagine you are a bit of a naturalist, or are you open to the possibility of the supernatural? I can’t remember FNM, sorry.
(July 1, 2011 at 2:55 am)Minimalist Wrote: Once again, produce evidence that your 'god' is any more real than those listed a couple of posts above....you know, the ones you will go to your grave swearing are "false."
(July 1, 2011 at 8:47 am)Gawdzilla Wrote: He won't, he can't. He does want us to believe because he believes and doesn't like it that we don't.
You must think you are psychic huh? Maybe it is you who wants me to not beleive and it bothers you that I do believe?
Sadly, I am heading out for the holiday weekend, so I won’t be back on until next week. Have a great weekend all of you!
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
July 1, 2011 at 10:31 pm (This post was last modified: July 1, 2011 at 10:32 pm by Faith No More.)
(July 1, 2011 at 4:12 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: Actually, the point I am trying to make is that the foundations for your search for knowledge are in spite of your atheism, not because of it. I am saying that if there really was no God, knowledge would be impossible because the preconditions for knowledge depend on God.
Why is god necessary for the preconditions for knowledge?
Statler Waldorf Wrote:Maybe we are not defining worldview the same here, everyone has one. Interpreting each bit of information on its own merits would be part of your worldview. I also imagine you are a bit of a naturalist, or are you open to the possibility of the supernatural? I can’t remember FNM, sorry.
If generally not believing in the supernatural makes me a naturalist, then I guess so. I don't believe in the supernatural, however, mostly because I'm a skeptic. So I guess my worldview could be summed up as, 'Be skeptical of everything, even your skepticism.'
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
