Psalm 137:9

[Minimalist]

Until you can produce evidence beyond a reasonable doubt for the existence of your preposterous god, my opinion will have to suffice.

Your fucking god gets a lot of credit for a generally shitty record of performance!

[Crossless2.0]

It's time to move past assertion and provide some evidence that your god exists, and I'm not talking about the same shitty apologetics talking points we've seen time and again. Put up or shut up.

[Astreja]

So now you mention God and Slavery?

The slavery in the Bible is different than the slavery in our times. They are different and that is an absolute 10% fact.  You want to pretend that there isn't a difference, fine, go ahead but your wrong!

How do you know they were different?  Were you there, mortal?  No, you were not.  You were told that by your mortal teachers, who also were not there.

The people involved were different masters and different slaves, but in the most important respect they are identical:  They were both slavery.  It is never a good thing when one person forces another person into servitude.  Supposedly a good god would have said "This is wrong.  Stop it, now!"  Nowhere in the Bible does it say that.  The only punishment for slavery is if a slave is beaten so badly that he dies on the day of the beating.  (It isn't a Bible crime if the slave dies later.)

Well, unless I'm talking about mathematics I don't tend to make objective statements.  Statements of opinion are always subjective.  Morality, being a judgment of whether something is good or bad, is also subjective.

So if morality is subjective, then that means that you saying my God is wrong that means its your opinion that Hes wrong and thats it!!

Yes, it is indeed My opinion that your god is imaginary -- which is a good thing, in My opinion, because if if your god did exist it would be the most evil being in the universe.

Think about it, Godisgood:  What purpose would hell serve, other than to give your imaginary fiend a hard-on at the thought of all those people crying for mercy or even for real death?  That isn't justice.  It is the antithesis of justice.  Humans only live about a hundred years, and there's only so much "sin" a person can commit in such a short time.  No matter how horrible the crime, an eternal punishment amounts to punishing someone an infinite number of times for something they only did once, twice, at most 3,153,600,000 times (assuming a very evil baby capable of one sin per second for 100 years).

No, there is no way in Niflheim that I would lower Myself to worship that sick-minded (and imaginary) rat-bastard, doling out injustice from its imaginary throne in a make-believe heaven.

And neither should you worship it.  Here's something else to think about:  What makes you think you would be safe in a heaven ruled by an insane torturer?  Remember the book of Job?  Your god made a bet with Satan, and allowed people to die to see if Job would crack under pressure.  For all you really know about the eternal life that you've been promised, your god could easily get bored with your hosannas and hallelujahs and toss you ass-over-apple-cart into the flames just for shits and giggles, and you wouldn't be able to do a damned {pun intended} thing about it.

If such a place as hell actually existed, you would be no safer than I am.  Fortunately, hell appears to be no more than a vicious-minded myth that religious leaders invented to scare people like you into their churches.

Time to put away your childish things and grow the fuck up.

[Godisgood]

The people involved were different masters and different slaves, but in the most important respect they are identical:  They were both slavery.

No they arent identical. One was based on those that were black and one happened because of  those that were in debt and it wasnt based on the skin color and furthermore, they had freedom and religious holidays off . None of that happened in modern day slavery. They are NOT THE SAME!!

---

If such a place as hell actually existed, you would be no safer than I am.  Fortunately, hell appears to be no more than a vicious-minded myth that religious leaders invented to scare people like you into their churches.

Im only in trouble if it turns out my God isnt real. If He is real then Im not in trouble.

And you saying that Hell is something that was invented to scare people is your opinion and it isnt biblical either!

---

What makes you think you would be safe in a heaven ruled by an insane torturer?  Remember the book of Job?  Your god made a bet with Satan, and allowed people to die to see if Job would crack under pressure.


And what did God say to Job when he questioned Him?

Also, God isnt the one torturing anyone. And He isnt insane.

---

No matter how horrible the crime, an eternal punishment amounts to punishing someone an infinite number of times for something they only did once, twice, at most 3,153,600,000 times (assuming a very evil baby capable of one sin per second for 100 years).


The reason God would punish someone for eternity for temporal sins committed on earth is based on who the sin is against, not on the size of the sins. Let me illustrate. If I were to walk up to you and slap you, you might get angry or even take a swing at me. We’re done (hopefully). If I were to walk up to the President of the United States and slap him, I would be arrested and probably spend years in jail. Why would the exact same “small” offense get such a different result? It is because of who it is against. Likewise, when we move up the chain of command to the infinite God of the universe, it isn’t difficult to see that the consequences are amplified infinitely as well. Therefore, eternal punishment in hell fits the crime--it is against.

Like it or not, when we sin, we sin against God. He is holy and He is righteous, and anything that we do that is contrary to His will--breaking the Law of God (1 John 3:4)--properly deserves punishment. Since our offense is against an infinitely holy God, the consequence is likewise infinite, and that is why eternal hell exists.

Biblically speaking, the standard of holiness rests with God, not with our ignorance and not with our circumstances. God says to be holy because He is holy (1 Peter 1:16).  The proper standard of righteousness is based in God and is not altered by our situation. Therefore, those who are ignorant of God don't have an excuse. Furthermore, we know this is the case because of what it says in the Bible.

And you have no basis other than your opinion to claim that God is wrong.

---

Think about it, Godisgood:  What purpose would hell serve, other than to give your imaginary fiend a hard-on at the thought of all those people crying for mercy or even for real death?  That isn't justice.  It is the antithesis of justice.  Humans only live about a hundred years, and there's only so much "sin" a person can commit in such a short time.  No matter how horrible the crime, an eternal punishment amounts to punishing someone an infinite number of times for something they only did once, twice, at most 3,153,600,000 times (assuming a very evil baby capable of one sin per second for 100 years).

God created people with freewill. Adam and Eve had a choice, they could choose to obey Him or they could choose to disobey Him. They choose to disobey Him. 

Humans only live about a hundred years, and there's only so much "sin" a person can commit in such a short time. 

That doesnt matter. The Bible says Sin demands death. it doesnt matter if we sin 1 time or 100 million times, one sin is bad enough that it demands death.  Learn to read what the Bible says.You are absolutely clueless as to what the Bible says. It is frightening.


The Bible tells us that God is holy, "You shall be holy, for I am holy," (1 Pet. 1:16).  Holiness is incorruptibility, perfection, purity, and the inability to sin, all of which are possessed by God alone.  Holiness is the very nature of God's character.  His character is perfect, without flaw, and He is the standard of all that is right and good.

The Bible also says that God is infinite , "Great is our Lord, and abundant in strength; His understanding is infinite," (Psalm 147:5).  If God's understanding is infinite, then God is infinite in nature.

The Bible tells us that God is love.  "And we have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him," (1 John 4:16).  God cares about us and seeks our wellbeing and security.  His thoughts about us are infinite and His love is too.  This is why God does not desire that anyone go to hell, but that all come to repentance (2 Pet. 3:9).

The Bible tells us that God is righteous.  "God is a righteous judge," (Psalm 7:9).  His righteousness is part of His character just as are mercy and love.  Righteousness deals with justice and justice deals with the Law.  This means that God will always do that which is right and He does so according to the righteous Law that He has set forth.  God cannot do anything wrong.  God must do that which is right, otherwise, He would not be righteous.

Jesus said that "out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks," (Matt. 12:34).  So too with God.  He speaks out of the abundance of His heart.  God spoke the universe into existence, "Let there be light," (Gen. 1:3) and He also spoke forth the Law (Exodus 20 - the Ten Commandments, etc.).  Therefore, the Law of God, is a reflection of God's character, because it comes out of what He is, holy, perfect, righteous, and good.  Therefore, the Law is a standard of perfection.  It is perfect and if we do not keep it perfectly, then we have offended the God who gave it; after all, it is a reflection of His character.  To break God's Law is to offend (sin against) God. Since it is law, there is punishment because there is no Law that is a law without a punishment.  This means that when we break the Law of God, we fall under the judgment of the Law of God.  Since He is infinite, our offense against Him takes on an infinite quality because we have offended an infinitely holy and righteous God.


Must God punish?

Yes, God must punish those who break His law because it is the right thing to do.  Just as a parent should punish a child for doing something wrong (intentionally), so God must punish those who do wrong.  You see, if God did not punish the person who does wrong, then He would be unjust and unrighteous.  He would be breaking His own law -- which He cannot do.  But, someone might say that the punishment of a parent on a child is temporary whereas God's punishment is eternal.  Why the difference?  The answer is two-fold.  First, God is infinite and a parent is not.  Second, God is the standard of all righteousness and the parent is not.

Because God is infinite, when we sin, we are offending an infinite God.  This is incredibly significant.  The reason sin is so bad is not so much because of the one committing the sin, but because of the One who is offended.  In other words, sin is so incredibly bad because it takes on a horrible quality by the very fact of who it is against; an infinitely pure, holy, and righteous God.

A parent is not the standard of righteousness.  God is.  A parent is (or should be) using the righteous standard of God in raising children.  Therefore, though a parent's punishment is temporary because it is instruction and correction, the punishment of God is eternal because our sin is against an eternal God.  There is a big difference.

[Crossless2.0]

And you have no basis other than your opinion to claim that God is wrong.

Apparently you have no basis for believing Yahweh is real, so your entire participation in this thread is nothing but a series of unsupported assertions. No one here is obligated to believe a word you type until you produce something more than your opinion that your so-called holy book is true and normative.

[Godisgood]

Until you can produce evidence beyond a reasonable doubt for the existence of your preposterous god, my opinion will have to suffice.



Yeah that cute buts thats not how opinions. If I give you evidence and you reject it, that doesnt make your opinions factual. At the end of the day, they are still opinions!!!

---

Yes, it is indeed My opinion that your god is imaginary -- which is a good thing, in My opinion, because if if your god did exist it would be the most evil being in the universe.

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[/img]

The photo doesnt show that it posted but when i go to edit it, it shows up fine, so I put the link for an image in case it doesnt show up!

Evil according to what standard?? There is no such thing as evil in an Atheistic world.

---

I can and do say that certain things are subjectively wrong, and when a substantial number of people agree with me that those things are wrong, we have established a community where those things are not tolerated.  That is how one establishes and preserves a society with morals -- through consensus, not through gods.

Oh so when a bunch of people agree on something, that means its wrong??

So Hitler got a bunch of people to agree with him that what he did wasnt wrong, so therefore, according to your logic, what he did wasnt wrong!! Does that make sense to you??

Morality being based on society doesnt work. We know this because of the Holocaust.

[Cyberman]

First of all you are not infinite and second of all, what are your standards, because the most you can offer as an atheist is your opinion?!?

How do you know that I am not infinite, mortal?  That is your opinion as well.

I'm guessing slick here was referring to me. In which case I reiterate that yes, I am infinite. What makes you think I'm not? Your opinion?

[downbeatplumb]

[quote pid='1613163' dateline='1504331856']

---

I can and do say that certain things are subjectively wrong, and when a substantial number of people agree with me that those things are wrong, we have established a community where those things are not tolerated.  That is how one establishes and preserves a society with morals -- through consensus, not through gods.

Oh so when a bunch of people agree on something, that means its wrong??

Now your getting it. But its a bit more subtle than that.
Society is what laws are based on but empathy is what morals are based on. But laws can influence empathy, in some backwards parts of the world there are still state sanctioned executions, something that is deemed immoral in the developed world. People in those countries don't have a problem with the state doing this evil act their m,orals have not caught up with the rest of us yet.

So Hitler got a bunch of people to agree with him that what he did wasnt wrong, so therefore, according to your logic, what he did wasnt wrong!! Does that make sense to you??

If Hitler had won the war you'd be rounding up jews now. In fact you have Trump so that may yet come.

Morality being based on society doesnt work. We know this because of the Holocaust.

You seem to be arguing against yourself, the holocaust is proof that people can have their morality altered by the society they live in. It happened and people did it, they did not think it was bad. so.......
[/quote]
[/quote]

[ignoramus]

That's some nice ascii art GC!

Can I see a nun and a goat in there?

[Godscreated]

 You have shown through our conversations that your sight is very limited, blinders must be a permanent fixture on your soul and mind, so sad.

GC

You're right.  My sight is limited to what's real.

What kind of emotional trauma created such a black hole in you that you that makes the fantasy you have so necessary?

So sad.

 None, and I have a light shining in me, it's ashame you can't see it.

Gc