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RE: Street Epistemology - Practice
November 21, 2017 at 10:51 am
(November 21, 2017 at 10:36 am)Crossless2.0 Wrote: (November 21, 2017 at 12:04 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: There are a number of reasons. From the more generic philosophical arguments such as cosmological, ontological, and moral arguments. To scientific arguements a such as strong anthromorphic principle, and intelligent design arguments such as those that persuaded Anthony Flew to quit describing himself as an atheist. There isn’t anecdotal evidence, that of miracles, found all around the world. Testimony of personal experiences, as well a must my own experiences. However I would say that first and foremost,I heard and believed the Gospels. I think it is the best exlpanation for the multiple disciples and apostles who testified to what happened.
What came first: your belief in the Gospels or your "more generic philosophical arguments"? I ask because I encounter a lot of Christians who seem never to have cracked a single book or article on philosophy until they realized they needed some work on the apologetics end and sought to lend some intellectual heft and credibility to beliefs they had already settled on for very different -- and less 'respectable' -- reasons.
I was exposed to the more philosophical arguments afterwords; so, I would say that it was the historical aspect which caught me at first. However now, if it was shown that Christianity was not true then, I would still likely be a deist.
Do you think that is an issue?
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
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RE: Street Epistemology - Practice
November 21, 2017 at 11:43 am
(This post was last modified: November 21, 2017 at 11:45 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Only insomuch as your not being a deist, making the contention that you would be if christian myth were shown to be ahistorical, for example, an untrustworthy claim by default. Is that just something you believe about yourself..or is it true? Food for thought.
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RE: Street Epistemology - Practice
November 21, 2017 at 12:45 pm
(November 21, 2017 at 10:51 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: (November 21, 2017 at 10:36 am)Crossless2.0 Wrote: What came first: your belief in the Gospels or your "more generic philosophical arguments"? I ask because I encounter a lot of Christians who seem never to have cracked a single book or article on philosophy until they realized they needed some work on the apologetics end and sought to lend some intellectual heft and credibility to beliefs they had already settled on for very different -- and less 'respectable' -- reasons.
I was exposed to the more philosophical arguments afterwords; so, I would say that it was the historical aspect which caught me at first. However now, if it was shown that Christianity was not true then, I would still likely be a deist.
Do you think that is an issue?
It's not an issue per se. Mostly, I was just curious. Am I to understand that your finding the Gospels historically plausible led to you being a theist or did you consider yourself a theist prior to encountering the Gospels?
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RE: Street Epistemology - Practice
November 21, 2017 at 4:32 pm
(November 21, 2017 at 12:45 pm)Crossless2.0 Wrote: (November 21, 2017 at 10:51 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: I was exposed to the more philosophical arguments afterwords; so, I would say that it was the historical aspect which caught me at first. However now, if it was shown that Christianity was not true then, I would still likely be a deist.
Do you think that is an issue?
It's not an issue per se. Mostly, I was just curious. Am I to understand that your finding the Gospels historically plausible led to you being a theist or did you consider yourself a theist prior to encountering the Gospels?
Apathetic probably best described me prior to.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
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RE: Street Epistemology - Practice
November 21, 2017 at 6:26 pm
(November 21, 2017 at 2:05 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: (November 21, 2017 at 1:59 am)curiosne Wrote: What sort of supporting evidence would you need..eg eye witness testimony, photograph..etc? (let's assume I live across the road from you and you're able to meet me as well).
I need to understand what you determine as evidence....
Anything that gives me reason to believe or not believe would be evidence. So yes, I would agree with your examples as evidence.
Edited to add: but it seems like your goal here is to make me not trust you, and to think that you are a liar.
No, my goal is trying to understand how you determine what is true of life and also what is true of reality. Let me know if this is getting too long winded and I'll try to close off my questions quickly...I'm new to this so my line of questioning might not be very succinct (apologies in advance).
Can you elaborate on the "anything" part of evidence? Are feelings counted as evidence? Or if I made a sound logical argument, would that also be evidence?
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RE: Street Epistemology - Practice
November 21, 2017 at 6:31 pm
(This post was last modified: November 21, 2017 at 6:32 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(November 21, 2017 at 12:35 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: (November 21, 2017 at 12:34 am)curiosne Wrote: Firstly I need to ask whether you care that what you believe in is true.
If you don't care, then practicing epistemology on you will be ineffective.
Yes...of course. May I assume that you do as well?
Hell, I WISH a truly good God existed. And I'm being entirely sincere when I say that. Life would be a lot better if that were true. I also wish a heaven existed, and I'm being entirely sincere when I say that too. If only a heaven did.
Oh wait, I'm not part of this conversation. Ignore me.
The above paragraph was a joke. The initial paragraph however, the one above that (the first one of mine here in this post), was indeed as sincere as stated. This paragraph? It's obnoxiously pretentious and self-referential. I'm being sincere about that too.
Anyway, yeah, I'm not part of this conversation unfortunately. Carry on.
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RE: Street Epistemology - Practice
November 21, 2017 at 6:34 pm
(November 21, 2017 at 6:31 pm)Hammy Wrote: (November 21, 2017 at 12:35 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Yes...of course. May I assume that you do as well?
Hell, I WISH a truly good God existed. And I'm being entirely sincere when I say that. Life would be a lot better if that were true. I also wish a heaven existed, and I'm being entirely sincere when I say that too. If only a heaven did.
Oh wait, I'm not part of this conversation. Ignore me.
The above paragraph was a joke. The initial paragraph however, the one above that (the first one of mine here in this post), was indeed as sincere as stated. This paragraph? It's obnoxiously pretentious and self-referential. I'm being sincere about that too.
Anyway, yeah, I'm not part of this conversation unfortunately. Carry on.
lol 
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RE: Street Epistemology - Practice
November 21, 2017 at 6:41 pm
This thread is awesome.
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RE: Street Epistemology - Practice
November 21, 2017 at 6:55 pm
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RE: Street Epistemology - Practice
November 21, 2017 at 6:56 pm
(November 21, 2017 at 6:55 pm)Whateverist Wrote: Philosophy slut.
Two of my favorite things.
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