Man Named 'Tiffany' Is Dominating Women's Pro Volleyball in Brazil

[The Grand Nudger]

I don't know if we agree because you haven't yet alluded to agreeing that the average male is better at the majority of sports than the average woman. 

Because that's flatly untrue.  It doesn't really matter though, in the larger context of the discussion.  Like I've said., the average male is a tubby who aint good at sports.  So is the average female.  Here, at least.  That wasn't true where and when I grew up..but sports were big, so "the average girl" played something.  It was our only way out, know what I mean?  That might not have been the case where you are...maybe "the average guy" really is better at sports than "the average girl" where you grew up - but we've both agreed that isn't "because male". I just wasn't better at soccer than a shitty female soccer player, even at my best. Volleyball and basketball and softball, though, were the big three for woman's sports where I came up. Of the three, I was marginally good at one, but I don;t really tjhink I could honestly say that I was flatly better then my bud ashley, who would drop threes on me all day long with her little fade. That shit drove me crazy....because I was like a foot and a half taller than she was, lol. I had a short fat buddy named steve who pulled the same shit. Those two were thick as thieves. He was a catcher, she played softball. I could smoke the shit out of either of them in a race. She was faster than he was, though. Neither of them could have beaten our team at an actual basketball game, you know..if you cloned em to fill it....but 1v1...meh, I was hopeless. I'd bet you cant get into the key on me, not even now with my fucked up knees...promise you'll hit a meat wall grinding on your ass and making uncomfortable gay jokes. But a snappy fade...especially dat finger roll? That;s always worked...hey.. maybe that's why I never played pro ball, huh, lol?

I played baseball too (that was my first sport, from kindergarten, lol.....those two kept playing, but I dropped it for track and basketball in high school and middle school respectively..too much on my plate)...but watching that fucking softball pitch it was obvious that..if I hit it, it would be forced to the ground by spin. I wasn't gonna send anything into the water against ashley...and she was a better pitcher than me, period.

We agree that women can be skillful and win things while in competition with men, which is something a 6 year old could conclude and something which no one has argued against that I know of.

The entire thesis of this thread...as it pertains to people on the other side of the fence from myself..is that some guy will always and forever be inherently better at sports than some girl..even if he gets his dick lopped off and his gonads removed and goes through horrendous chemical therapy to transition...so.......

[paulpablo]

I don't know if we agree because you haven't yet alluded to agreeing that the average male is better at the majority of sports than the average woman. 

Because that's flatly untrue.  It doesn't really matter though, in the larger context of the discussion.  Like I've said., the average male is a tubby who aint good at sports.  So is the average female.  Here, at least.  That wasn't true where and when I grew up..but sports were big, so "the average girl" played something.  It was our only way out, know what I mean?  That might not have been the case where you are.  

We agree that women can be skillful and win things while in competition with men, which is something a 6 year old could conclude and something which no one has argued against that I know of.

The entire thesis of this thread...as it pertains to people on the other side of the fence from myself..is that some guy will always and forever be inherently better at sports than some girl..even if he gets his dick lopped off and his gonads removed and goes through horrendous chemical therapy to transition...so.......

If the average male is tubby the average female is tubbier, with a higher body fat percentile, less muscle mass, less bone density, less explosive power, less speed, less height and less strength and won't be as good at all the sports which favor those qualities.

[The Grand Nudger]

Still doesn't change the fact that neither of them are any good at sports. We could do this all day, and the next one..and the next one...and the next one.... You -have- to be aware of how bad at sports most folks are. Male or female..just bad. We've all seen someone trying to play a game they're just no good at, right? Hell..we've all been that person, haven't we?

Let me guess...you'll never offer any answer to that earlier question of mine, huh. I don't see the point of being cagey. We both agree on every issue, broadly, including the origin of any advantage commonly thought of as stereotypically "male". Unless, ofc, you feel compelled to say something that doesn't really fit with any of the things that you and I have agreed on. Like..you know..that some trans athlete will always and forever have an advantage "because male", once upon a time.

[paulpablo]

Still doesn't change the fact that neither of them are any good at sports.  We could do this all day, and the next one..and the next one...and the next one....

Let me guess...you'll never offer any answer to that earlier question of mine, huh.

It's night here, and I can't do this all night it's nearly my bedtime. I'm hoping I'll be alseep dreaming about me and you playing volleyball soon, me topless and sweating like that scene in top gun and you wearing a dress with lipstick and eyeliner.

[The Grand Nudger]

Kinky.  I like it.  No kissing on the mouth, though.

[Edwardo Piet]

Men and women aren't physically equal in strength... and that's wholly irrelevant to the topic. Because a transwoman is not a man.

Having them either forced to compete with men when they're women, or forced to compete with other transwomen, or not allowed to compete in sports at all is all very wrong.

Trans women are women. Cis women are women. Whether someone is trans or cis simply does matter. And a trans woman winning in women's sports is just a woman winning in women's sports. Tired of the bigotry. Whether someone is Trans or Cis is wholly irrelevant. It's the women's category, not the ciswomen's category.

I still think this thread title violates the prime directive, because no "man" named tiffany is dominating women's pro volleyball in Brazil.

If this title was "a woman named Tiffany is dominating women's pro volleyball in Brazil" the response would be "Great. Good for her." and there would be nothing worth debating. And this is my point.

To call a transwoman a man is bigotry of the worst kind, it's like calling a black person a nigger. Bigotry is not against AF's rules, but violation of the prime directive is. And the thread title violates it. I did decide to report it. This thread isn't about a man, it's about a transwoman, so the title is a fucking disgusting misrepresentation. And many people are debating this as if we're talking about a man competing with a woman. And it's so fucking wrong.

It irks me when otherwise progressive people who aren't bigoted about anything else, will be transphobic. I made a whole thread about Sam Harris not getting it and many didn't get it. Apparently it's okay to laugh in agreement at a friend making transphobic remarks but it wouldn't be okay if it were homophobic remarks or racist remarks. Get with the goddamn program. This is 2018 and we're debating whether a woman should be able to compete in women's sports. Like, is it okay if she's trans? Yes it's okay if she's trans. What do you want her to do? Compete with the men? You're disgusting.

[shadow]

It irks me when otherwise progressive people who aren't bigoted about anything else, will be transphobic. I made a whole thread about Sam Harris not getting it and many didn't get it. Apparently it's okay to laugh in agreement at a friend making transphobic remarks but it wouldn't be okay if it were homophobic remarks or racist remarks. Get with the goddamn program. This is 2018 and we're debating whether a woman should be able to compete in women's sports. Like, is it okay if she's trans? Yes it's okay if she's trans. What do you want her to do? Compete with the men? You're disgusting.

No, I won't 'get with the program'. If this is your expectation, you're as bad as an alt-righter when it comes to critically thinking. I am progressive, but I will critically analyze the effect any changes to the status quo will have. Not all change is good change, and not all of it makes sense. This doesn't make sense. It's like wally said, athletic competition is something that means a lot to people who are involved in it, and you sound glib when you come in and make these sweeping judgements about something you're not involved with.

Who are you to say it's the women's category, not the cis women's category? Many jurisdictions don't allow trans women to compete in the women's category, and for a damn good reason that comes from their understanding of the nature of sport.

To act like transwomen are biological women is scientifically incorrect. That's cornerstone to this discussion. Be objective, Hammy. Not everything can be equalized. It may not be what we would prefer, but it's simply a fact.

[FFaith]

The man in the dress strikes again!  

Man in a dress? Are you implying that women who were born biologically male but have known they were a girl from a very young age are not real women, but just a man in a dress until they get hormones and surgery? And we're the transphobic bigots?

[The Grand Nudger]

-said the person invoking mike tyson in a dress as though it were a pronouncement on trans athletes.

[FFaith]

-said the person invoking mike tyson in a dress as though it were a pronouncement on trans athletes.

Not at all. That was not a response by me to the main topic of the thread. It was a response to Hammy's argument that we're bigots because we don't want people to compete against the gender they identify with. Many trans women still have a penis and have not done any hormone treatments, but that doesn't mean they are not women or girls. My hypothetical was not about the cis Mike Tyson, but an alternative reality where he (which would be she in that reality) identified as female, so calling that person a man in a dress would likely offend them and they would think you are being a transphobe.