Homosexuals and Heaven

[fr0d0]

And why is that sex drive there aleialora? Isn't it there so that we reproduce?

[Ace Otana]

Hehe Good one ace

In the study of population trands that's known as the model for developed countries

Where there's holes of opportunity in society, people will take advantage.
Jess ran off and had kids not because she wants them but to take advantage, and peer pressure.

[salty]

Looks to me like you've sunken so low as to attack me personally instead of maintaining that I have the right to my opinion, whether its bible based or not. Unless you're sticking up for yourself I don't see a reason for you to be so hostile about this subject. Is it because of your friends, someone you love? Haven't I made it clear that I do not express this view because I do not push my ways on others? Haven't I made it clear that my brother in law, my former boss, my coworker, my close friend are gay and yet I get along just fine with them? If they asked me I would definitely share my views, but it is not until now that I have approached the subject, actually...the entire reason I responded to this thread was to see if you El Dinero could still be respectful and friendly with me, even though I have a different position on this subject. You and the others talk about judgment, that I pass judgment on others while you pass judgment on me.

Read my posts and you'll soon learn what respect looks like, read your posts and I believe you will find the very definition of judgment.

As I said, I do not have to respect opinions just because they are held, or people just because they exist. You have the RIGHT to it, but respect is earned. You started out with some, then you revealed your thick headed, offensive opinions and lost it all. A couple of other things:

1. The fact that you think I need to either be gay or be close to someone who is gay to find your opinion offensive is pathetic. I know some gay people, but my opinion isn't based on that. I don't know many black people, but racism offends me just as much.

That's good. Racism offends me too.

2. The fact that you can get along with people who are gay is irrelevant. You are still looking down your nose and judging them for what they are. You can try and avoid the comparison between homosexuals and black people if you want, but it's disingenuous. Your distinction has now moved to 'You can't SEE that someone is gay' - what does this have to do with anything? The fact remains that neither can, or should, change what they are. I can't believe I have to reiterate this point, because I have made it at least twice already. Read this carefully, and let it sink in: The only reason people have to 'come out of the closet' is because of people like you. The closet only exists because of people like you. Your religion has been building closets for centuries, and continues to build them, and you are PERSONALLY culpable for this. You. This is a societal construct based in religion. It does not make the act itself immoral. Get that through your thick head.

I maintain my view. I don't want the thread to shut down because of additional race comments, so let's stay away from that area for the moment.

Concerning my interactions with homosexuals. You've never seen me in person, you have no idea what my relationship is like with the people I know, gay or otherwise. It's this ignorance that makes your responses void, your hands are just flying and you think you know me based on this facet of me. There is so much more to a person than just what one topic can reveal, there is so much more to a person than just what you feel is "coming to light." If I didn't hold this belief I would have been done with you ages ago.

Throughout this discussion you shake your finger at me time and again, using foul language, insults and every cutting remark you can think of to say that I'm "wrong." Sounds awfully familiar to what you're accusing me of. When have I ever needed to stoop to a level based in verbal vomit, just to say I'm angry? Thank you for reminding me what hypocrisy looks like with your behavior, thank you for helping me remember what discrimination feels like, thank you for establishing a double-standard for this place, so that I continually feel unwelcomed, I'm sure there are other facets of you, that are good, I just can't see them right now.

---

Really, it's very tiring for people to think that they could ever understand what it's like to experience racism (unless they have) and that I enjoy seeing any of you mentioing the KKK, which I had to watch out for while I was in school in Indiana. Let's place the racial situations behind us, because it will certainly have this thread shut down.

No one's saying they understand what it's like to experience racism, but the reason it is mentioned is because prejudice is prejudice, no matter how much you dress it up. If you don't like your views on homosexuality being compared to racism, perhaps it is time to rethink your position.

I see, that was a clear response! Yet, ethnicity is not based on attraction or sexual nature, this is the reason I don't like the comparison. I do see prejudice as prejudice. I agree there.

[Erinome]

And why is that sex drive there aleialora? Isn't it there so that we reproduce?

If sex drives were present solely for reproduction purposes, then men who have had vasectomies, women who have had hysterectomies, or a tubal ligation, would no longer have sex drives.

Also, women and men who were born with no means to reproduce would never go through puberty, or have any desire to have sex.

Sex IS for more than reproduction.

[ElDinero]

We know you maintain your view, salty, because you're an offensive, disgraceful human being. Changing your position would require you to not be, so you're obliged to stay put. If you were white, you would probably think interracial marriage was immoral. I'll continue to insult you if you continue to say things that are insulting. Just because you don't use curse words, doesn't mean you occupy the high ground. Believe me, you're the one using foul language. And if you continue to occupy positions that look down their nose at demographics based on what your shitty old book says, you can expect to continue being made to feel unwelcome, especially by me.

To say that my argument is based in telling you what an ignorant person you are is to do something very familiar to people like you, we call it 'lying'. Read back and you will see that I have dedicated more than enough time enquiring about your positions, responding to them, pointing out fallacies and hypocrisy, as have numerous other people. The point you commend Faith No More for making has been made numerous times already by many others, including myself.

Why you go back to the argument of 'you don't know me, don't judge me' I have no idea, for two reasons. Firstly, I have already stated that your relationship with gay people that you know is IRRELEVANT. The post you quoted explained why it is irrelevant; are you able to understand sentences? For clarity's sake, let me say this about the fact that you talk politely to gay people: It doesn't make a blind bit of difference because you still acknowledge what they are doing as wrong. I am not accusing you of oppressing them, or being rude to them, or anything. Can I possibly make this any clearer? If you are still having trouble with this, go back to school.

Secondly, we post on a forum. I am completely entitled to (and indeed, can only) judge you on the content of your posts here. You can do the same and draw whatever conclusions you see fit, I don't give a shit. My conscience is clear. Only one of us is suffering from cognitive dissonance, reading up on why a flood couldn't happen and yet believing it did regardless, understanding that prejudice is prejudice and practising it anyway, understanding that homosexual love is equal to heterosexual love and yet describing it as immoral.

If you choose to only read the naughty words in my posts, then you could miss out on the fact that your argument has been torn to shreds by every single one of us. You don't have a leg to stand on. You still have not told us what it is that is wrong about homosexuality. Clue: Penises aren't designed for arseholes is not a reason, unless you can show that putting them in there causes harm to people. Can you show this, or can you not?

If you can, get the fuck on with it and take down the veil of your nicey nicey 'lets all get along' charade. If you can't, then accept that you don't have a clue why it's immoral, and you only think it is because of the only book you've ever read.

[Epimethean]

This is a sticky argument, because masturbation is not for the purpose of making babies, and homosexual couples can have babies via the same methods infertile couples or single people do: Adoption or in vitro (even via surrogacy).

[Faith No More]

Yet, ethnicity is not based on attraction or sexual nature, this is the reason I don't like the comparison.

The comparison is valid, however, because both ethnicity and sexual orientation are traits one has no control over but are used by others to pass unfounded judgement.

[Erinome]

We know you maintain your view, salty, because you're an offensive, disgraceful human being. Changing your position would require you to not be, so you're obliged to stay put. If you were white, you would probably think interracial marriage was immoral. I'll continue to insult you if you continue to say things that are insulting. Just because you don't use curse words, doesn't mean you occupy the high ground. Believe me, you're the one using foul language. And if you continue to occupy positions that look down their nose at demographics based on what your shitty old book says, you can expect to continue being made to feel unwelcome, especially by me.

To say that my argument is based in telling you what an ignorant person you are is to do something very familiar to people like you, we call it 'lying'. Read back and you will see that I have dedicated more than enough time enquiring about your positions, responding to them, pointing out fallacies and hypocrisy, as have numerous other people. The point you commend Faith No More for making has been made numerous times already by many others, including myself.

Why you go back to the argument of 'you don't know me, don't judge me' I have no idea, for two reasons. Firstly, I have already stated that your relationship with gay people that you know is IRRELEVANT. The post you quoted explained why it is irrelevant; are you able to understand sentences? For clarity's sake, let me say this about the fact that you talk politely to gay people: It doesn't make a blind bit of difference because you still acknowledge what they are doing as wrong. I am not accusing you of oppressing them, or being rude to them, or anything. Can I possibly make this any clearer? If you are still having trouble with this, go back to school.

Secondly, we post on a forum. I am completely entitled to (and indeed, can only) judge you on the content of your posts here. You can do the same and draw whatever conclusions you see fit, I don't give a shit. My conscience is clear. Only one of us is suffering from cognitive dissonance, reading up on why a flood couldn't happen and yet believing it did regardless, understanding that prejudice is prejudice and practising it anyway, understanding that homosexual love is equal to heterosexual love and yet describing it as immoral.

If you choose to only read the naughty words in my posts, then you could miss out on the fact that your argument has been torn to shreds by every single one of us. You don't have a leg to stand on. You still have not told us what it is that is wrong about homosexuality. Clue: Penises aren't designed for arseholes is not a reason, unless you can show that putting them in there causes harm to people. Can you show this, or can you not?

If you can, get the fuck on with it and take down the veil of your nicey nicey 'lets all get along' charade. If you can't, then accept that you don't have a clue why it's immoral, and you only think it is because of the only book you've ever read.

I am in full agreement. I have personally torn her argument to shreds, and all she has done in response is attack my method of argument (stating that I am not allowed to use personal experiences as a basis of knowledge, and that I am not to address her unless she addresses me first.), and call me a racist for comparing homosexuality as a genetic trait to being black as a genetic trait.

We could just as easily compare homosexuality to being white. It really makes no difference. She has no real argument, and the only one she can scrounge up is that the bible says it is so, so it is so. Then she asserted that things aren't immoral just because they hurt people and cited lying and stealing as examples of immorality that don't harm anyone!

I question, not only her intellect, but her morals as well. You know what group of people don't see lying and stealing as hurtful to people? SOCIOPATHS.

[fr0d0]

And why is that sex drive there aleialora? Isn't it there so that we reproduce?

If sex drives were present solely for reproduction purposes, then men who have had vasectomies, women who have had hysterectomies, or a tubal ligation, would no longer have sex drives.

Also, women and men who were born with no means to reproduce would never go through puberty, or have any desire to have sex.

Sex IS for more than reproduction.

This is a sticky argument, because masturbation is not for the purpose of making babies, and homosexual couples can have babies via the same methods infertile couples or single people do: Adoption or in vitro (even via surrogacy).

The instinct to reproduce has to be strong because it is instrumental in continuing the species. We don't have sex because we think about wanting babies, we have sex because we have strong sexual drive. That only exists because of the reproductive consequences.

It makes no difference if people have the function disabled... the drive is still there, the pleasure that is part of the function doesn't need all of the rest of the mechanism to be working.

Sure people of the same sex can excite the sexual organs of other people, and excite themselves, but the reason those organs work like that is because of the species' necessety for them to work like that, to produce offspring.

Sex works outside of reproduction, but came about because of reproduction.

[Epimethean]

So, what is your actual point then, fr0do? How do you want to tie that to homosexuality? They have sex, so they are not defective-any more than someone who masturbates is.