Changing the banner to promote BLM

[Rev. Rye]

timpa and floyd's circumstances, character, or past don't mean absolute shit. It doesn't excuse what actions were done to them. Fuck @Grandizer I really expected more from you.

I think you have misunderstood Grandizer profoundly.

It's weird, it's almost like he's arguing that prejudice can come from a shitton of characteristics other than melanin content, like mental illness.

Seriously, from what I've heard, Timpa apparently called 911 for reasons that aren't clear, but are apparently related to his not being on his meds and 20 minutes later, he was dead. It's not a case of saying "Oh, look, a white guy died in similar circumstances, therefore, there's no problem with systemic racism and police brutality." It's another prejudice coming out in a brutal fashion (fun fact: according to my research, if a mentally ill person does something violent, it's more likely to be towards themselves than others. They are no more violent than the average person, but are more likely to be the victims of violent crime than perpetrators.) As someone with OCD, Depression, and an ASD (debatable whether that counts as mental illness, I admit, but it's in the DSM, so I'm putting it there), this concerns me dearly. However, the fact is, the effect of these prejudices on black communities is too stark and painfully visible to ignore it and to use Tony Timpa's death as a counterexample is to blatantly miss the bloody point.

[brewer]

Which important cause? Gun violence, corporations, politics, environment, immigration, health, LGBTQ, ............. the cause du jour? They are all important.

That's all I have to say.

Sure, but people's skin color isn't politics or a cause du jour. It's not a matter of opinion. Shit, it's not even a "cause." Until people stop being too scared to say, "I'm not going to tolerate racism in this country anymore," it will never stop.

You picked one out of several examples. I didn't say opinion, you did. And BLM has been called a "cause" by many sources, google it. If you want to argue over definitions this will go no where.

Until people are willing to say I'm not going to tolerate (insert an issue here) it will never stop.

And you are selecting one race movement, BLM, to advertise that this forum supports. Racism and lack of justice in this country involves more than one race. I would like it all to end, and more. But I'll just do my thing IRL which is more about helping the additced and impoverished.

Tell me, what does "atheist" have universally in common with any issue other than religion?

I know the banner change is your (or partially your) idea and believe it is well intentioned. I don't agree with the change for reasons I've stated. I don't expect you to agree with me and don't want a debate.

[Rev. Rye]

The current banner isn’t toxic and not wanting to change it isn’t toxic. It is simply not enough reason to change it.

I'm forever astounded at the minuscule lengths people are willing to go to avoid simply saying, "I want to see an end to racism." Here, and in real life, I see people I would've never considered racist refuse to take any kind of hard stance against racism. They can't even say black lives matter, even when out of the context of the BLM movement. They wouldn't dare attend a protest because they may be seen as anti-cop. They wouldn't go out of their way to support black people because there are just so many other causes out there that they're also doing nothing about. We wouldn't want to be seen as controversial or anti-white. I've seen all these positions and more over and over again.

It probably makes a lot more sense when you consider that maybe (in practice at least) people’s moral compasses tend to work in self-serving ways and that as long as certain injustices don’t happen to them, they don’t matter. Why, yes, that is a cynical worldview, but I think it goes a long way toward explaining that phoenomenon you just described.

[tackattack]

The current banner isn’t toxic and not wanting to change it isn’t toxic. It is simply not enough reason to change it.

I'm forever astounded at the minuscule lengths people are willing to go to avoid simply saying, "I want to see an end to racism." Here, and in real life, I see people I would've never considered racist refuse to take any kind of hard stance against racism. They can't even say black lives matter, even when out of the context of the BLM movement. They wouldn't dare attend a protest because they may be seen as anti-cop. They wouldn't go out of their way to support black people because there are just so many other causes out there that they're also doing nothing about. We wouldn't want to be seen as controversial or anti-white. I've seen all these positions and more over and over again.

I couldn't imagine being black. I couldn't imagine reading a forum thread where people argued that simply subtly changing a banner to show support for me in a dangerous time for people who look like me was just too much, too controversial, too political. It's no wonder there are groups of black people who can't see an ally in any white person. I'd be defensive as fuck too.

I want an end to overt and systemic bigotry and racism Shell. Here and in RL which I discuss with my family and friends regularly lately. Black lives do matter, especially now. 

My only point was that if AF wants to change the banner every week for the next cause that's something you'll have to take up with the programmers here. It won't affect my attendance/ participation. If you want to start with just this one, the rest will all want their piece. It's a lot of work that I think it would not help as much as other solutions. Wouldn't setting up a thread under announcements for charitable causes and ways to donate, fed from the feedback thread, be much more effective at solving real world problems and making an impact and showing support?

I see it as similar to mask wearing. It's such a small ask to put on a mask, why not just do it? Is  the purpose to keep the current cause in the forefront of everyone's attention or to provide outlets for change? I thought it was the latter. If it's the former I can see why making a banner change would be helpful. Perhaps easier to manage would be a color scheme change for the forums or a bot in the shoutbox to send out some links or a phrase after xx posts.

[The Architect Of Fate]

I'm delighted to learn that you can count to 4.  Your point?

Boru

Kim Jong-un would say I don't have one. 

Kim also claims he can control the weather and he won the world cup ....So

[Shell B]

Sure, but people's skin color isn't politics or a cause du jour. It's not a matter of opinion. Shit, it's not even a "cause." Until people stop being too scared to say, "I'm not going to tolerate racism in this country anymore," it will never stop.

You picked one out of several examples. I didn't say opinion, you did. And BLM has been called a "cause" by many sources, google it. If you want to argue over definitions this will go no where.  

Until people are willing to say I'm not going to tolerate (insert an issue here) it will never stop.

And you are selecting one race movement, BLM, to advertise that this forum supports. Racism and lack of justice in this country involves more than one race. I would like it all to end, and more. But I'll just do my thing IRL which is more about helping the additced and impoverished.

Tell me, what does "atheist" have universally in common with any issue other than religion?

I know the banner change is your (or partially your) idea and believe it is well intentioned. I don't agree with the change for reasons I've stated. I don't expect you to agree with me and don't want a debate.

Actually, I clarified that I didn't mean to point out black lives matter as an organization in terms of the banner in the other thread. I meant to call out the current incarnation of the civil rights movement. To me, black lives matter is more of a statement than a group, so I misspoke (typed).

[Shell B]

I'm forever astounded at the minuscule lengths people are willing to go to avoid simply saying, "I want to see an end to racism." Here, and in real life, I see people I would've never considered racist refuse to take any kind of hard stance against racism. They can't even say black lives matter, even when out of the context of the BLM movement. They wouldn't dare attend a protest because they may be seen as anti-cop. They wouldn't go out of their way to support black people because there are just so many other causes out there that they're also doing nothing about. We wouldn't want to be seen as controversial or anti-white. I've seen all these positions and more over and over again.

I couldn't imagine being black. I couldn't imagine reading a forum thread where people argued that simply subtly changing a banner to show support for me in a dangerous time for people who look like me was just too much, too controversial, too political. It's no wonder there are groups of black people who can't see an ally in any white person. I'd be defensive as fuck too.

I want an end to overt and systemic bigotry and racism Shell. Here and in RL which I discuss with my family and friends regularly lately. Black lives do matter, especially now. 

My only point was that if AF wants to change the banner every week for the next cause that's something you'll have to take up with the programmers here. It won't affect my attendance/ participation. If you want to start with just this one, the rest will all want their piece. It's a lot of work that I think it would not help as much as other solutions. Wouldn't setting up a thread under announcements for charitable causes and ways to donate, fed from the feedback thread, be much more effective at solving real world problems and making an impact and showing support?

I see it as similar to mask wearing. It's such a small ask to put on a mask, why not just do it? Is  the purpose to keep the current cause in the forefront of everyone's attention or to provide outlets for change? I thought it was the latter. If it's the former I can see why making a banner change would be helpful. Perhaps easier to manage would be a color scheme change for the forums or a bot in the shoutbox to send out some links or a phrase after xx posts.

It's sole and only purpose is to offer some small token of understanding and solidarity to a group that has NEVER been treated as equal in the entire history of the United States. It wouldn't be a rotating banner to highlight any and every cause. It would specifically, for whatever time deemed necessary, be an anti-racism banner. Anyone who says, "But what about me and my cause?" couldn't see past the tip of their nose, and that's their problem. I have OCD and I'm not begging for a mental health banner. I just thought it would be a nice gesture since, you know, people are debating whether black people's worries should even be worth considering in every single level of American society right now. A little, "Hey, you know what? We think your life matters." is hardly a big ask. Yeah, there are other persecuted groups. None have been so publicly and brutally scrutinized in this country to this extent. Even the Muslim hysteria was only a fraction of our history.

I'm happy to not do it if this forum doesn't want it as a whole. I can't say I'm not disappointed in the apathy and/or whataboutisms I see here. I'll get over it. It's a mirror image of the attitude everywhere else, so it's hardly surprising.

[Athene]

@Shell B
I submitted the idea below on the "real" thread, but my my post disappeared....

Perhaps something that reflects BLM's ideological framework?



OR...now stay with me on this...
AF could show support for black Americans' fight for equal justice by using a symbol or movement that HASN'T been despicably co-opted to serve the interests and agenda of white anarcho-communists.


IDK. One's just as good as the other, I guess.

Though, you know what they say: When in doubt.....Go with the commie front organization.

Seriously...
Of ALL of the countless ways AF could express clear and unapologetic support for black Americans/black lives--hell, even a image of ordinary protesters would work---most folks here are dead set upon promoting the commie shit-show funded and controlled by degenerate, white psychopaths. 

Birds of a feather.

Well, my pro-black black ass has weighed in, and motherfuckers here will hear nothing of it.
Verdict is in: LOL...Y'all are full of shit.

EDIT: I can see you're getting pushed around. Lol...No good deed goes unpunished.

My issue isn't with you, btw--it's some of the rest of these motherfuckers that I find annoying. 
It's of no particular importance to me what you put up there. Or if you leave it as is.

[Shell B]

@Athene You and I have disagreed I don't know how many times. There have been dozens of moments where I was so confused why in the hell you would be so averse to believing anyone could be a black ally. I've even thought, this woman might just hate white people. I'm not ashamed to admit it. While you may be too much of a bitch like myself for us to ever be pals, I understand your position a lot more than I did. Very few people seem willing to even take the most minor of stances for what seems to me as no good reason. I know for sure that there are white people who are truly allies, but I don't blame anyone who doesn't trust that. Too many of us are completely apathetic.

As for your banner suggestion, I'm not sure anti-BLM incorporates the whole message, though I think it gets more support here than just plain anti-racism, oddly enough.

[Athene]

@Athene You and I have disagreed I don't know how many times. There have been dozens of moments where I was so confused why in the hell you would be so averse to believing anyone could be a black ally. I've even thought, this woman might just hate white people. I'm not ashamed to admit it. While you may be too much of a bitch like myself for us to ever be pals, I understand your position a lot more than I did. Very few people seem willing to even take the most minor of stances for what seems to me as no good reason. I know for sure that there are white people who are truly allies, but I don't blame anyone who doesn't trust that. Too many of us are completely apathetic.

As for your banner suggestion, I'm not sure anti-BLM incorporates the message, though I think it gets more support here than just plain anti-racism, oddly enough.

Those posing as allies are the ones to look out for--they've always working an angle that's self-serving and loathsome as hell.

*cough*..Antifa...*cough*
Yeah, we see you. Motherfuckers.