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r/WallStreetBets vs Hedge funds
#1
r/WallStreetBets vs Hedge funds
I'm kinda amazed nobody has a thread about this yet.  In case anyone here has been living under a rock and therefore doesn't know what's going on, here's an article explaining it.

My explanation:  Gamestop has been a struggling company, especially since covid hit.  People are downloading games more than going into brick and morter stores anymore and covid only made that problem worse.  And their stock prices started going down.  Hedge funds, seeing them as a bad investment went all in on a short sell.  A short sell is when you borrow a stock, sell it at a high price and then buy it back later on.  If it drops in price, as expected, the difference is a profit.  It might seem weird to buy and sell something you don't even own, but wall street rules aren't the same as the rules for everyone else.  And they were being extremely aggressive, trying to push the stock price down lower and lower.

Enter reddit.

There's a stock trading subreddit called WallStreetBets.  Some of their users noticed that gamestop was being short traded way below where it should be.  In fact, hedge funds had short traded 140% of the company stocks.  So, they decided to use this glaring weakness to stick it to the man.  Several of them teamed up, lead by u/DeepFuckingValue and bought as much gamestop stock as they could.  Well, regardless of how well the store is doing, if people are buying a stock, its price goes up.  That's exactly what started happening to gamestop stock: price went up.  Last summer, it was around $4 a share.  Now?  Now it's selling for $325 a share.  

Here's the next problem:  remember the short traders?  They still have to buy that stock back but since its price is 80 times higher than it started out, they have to buy the stock back for way more than they originally sold it.  That's the problem with short sells: the potential risk is infinite.  Which is exactly what Wallstreetbets wants.  A lot of the people in it are very specifically saying they're holding.  They WANT to take down hedge funds.  The hedge funds, on the other hand, are just waiting to sell their stock for the prices to go back down.  Reddit has a couple of big advantages.  First, interest payments are piling up on the hedge funds.  If they have to wait a year to cash out, they also have to pay a years worth of interest and that's going to get pricey.  But there's another advantage reddit has:  Motive.

See, everyone here kinda knows Wallstreet has been screwing over main street for decades.  The most glaring example would probably be 2008 when they all got bailed out for playing hot potato with home loans and a lot of people wound up homeless.  But this isn't the first time it's happened.  The general feeling has been that Wall Street has been financially screwing over everyone else, so everyone else finally decided to band together and beat Wall Street at their own game. The redditors aren't out for money; they're out for blood and they're getting it.

Melvin Capital already lost 30% of their fund and this isn't over.  The redditors are still holding onto their gamestop stock, some saying they'll sell when it hits $1000 a share.  They're pulling the same trick with other short selling companies like Nokia, AMC and even Blockbuster.  Hedgefunds have been trying to do something to stop them, but what can they do?  They've spent so much time and effort to make the stock market as unregulated as possible, so there aren't a lot of rules they can use to stop them.  What few attempts they have made, trying to force stock trading aps to sell or restricting the buying of volatile stocks has netted them lawsuits for market manipulation.  They're putting out article after article after article, all written by investment bankers, trying to tell people to pack it in and stop gaming the market against them.  The redditors are just laughing at it.

I guess it's just a question of how this will end.
I live on facebook. Come see me there. http://www.facebook.com/tara.rizzatto

"If you cling to something as the absolute truth and you are caught in it, when the truth comes in person to knock on your door you will refuse to let it in." ~ Siddhartha Gautama
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#2
RE: r/WallStreetBets vs Hedge funds
Well, the top and Wall Street and billionaires have always had the same attitude, "It isn't a crime if you fuck over people with less power, it is a crime if you fuck with the rich and are not in the same class."
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#3
RE: r/WallStreetBets vs Hedge funds
The hedge funds are pissed at the Redditors for the most common of reasons - they got beaten at their own game.

Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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#4
RE: r/WallStreetBets vs Hedge funds
(January 30, 2021 at 1:59 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: The hedge funds are pissed at the Redditors for the most common of reasons - they got beaten at their own game.

Boru

"The wrong people are manipulating the stock market!"
-- some hedge fund manager, probably
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#5
RE: r/WallStreetBets vs Hedge funds
(January 30, 2021 at 2:15 pm)Jackalope Wrote:
(January 30, 2021 at 1:59 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: The hedge funds are pissed at the Redditors for the most common of reasons - they got beaten at their own game.

Boru

"The wrong people are manipulating the stock market!"
-- some hedge fund manager, probably

‘The increase in GameStock share prices is due to manipulation, not free market forces!’ - the same guy, probably.

Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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#6
RE: r/WallStreetBets vs Hedge funds
Team Reddit is using collusion to manipulate stock prices. I'm ok with this because having large hedge funds short a stock is a way to manipulate stock prices so same same.

Short selling doesn't hurt companies because the loaned stock comes from a broker or in some cases private traders and stock price doesn't have much effect on the bottom line of a company. Individual employees might suffer due to their company issued options being worthless (That happened to me when I was hired at Intel. Those options aged off without benefitting me at all due to stagnant stock price). There could be an up side for the company if the price goes really low, in that they could re-acquire their stock and then sell it at a higher price to realize gains.

GME, AMC, NOK, and Blackberry are pretty much doomed due to disruptive technologies that have made, GME and AMC in particular, obsolete business models. Shorting these companies makes sense and is not predatory.

BTW I'm holding as much AMC and NOK that Robinhood would let me buy the day after the purchase freeze. I figure if there is a force artificially bolstering the stock I might as well gain from the play. I'm down a few bucks but the whole market dipped yesterday so I'm expecting a rally this Monday.
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#7
RE: r/WallStreetBets vs Hedge funds
(January 30, 2021 at 2:49 pm)Rhizomorph13 Wrote: Team Reddit is using collusion to manipulate stock prices. I'm ok with this because having large hedge funds short a stock is a way to manipulate stock prices so same same.

Short selling doesn't hurt companies because the loaned stock comes from a broker or in some cases private traders and stock price doesn't have much effect on the bottom line of a company. Individual employees might suffer due to their company issued options being worthless (That happened to me when I was hired at Intel. Those options aged off without benefitting me at all due to stagnant stock price). There could be an up side for the company if the price goes really low, in that they could re-acquire their stock and then sell it at a higher price to realize gains.

GME, AMC, NOK, and Blackberry are pretty much doomed due to disruptive technologies that have made, GME and AMC in particular, obsolete business models. Shorting these companies makes sense and is not predatory.

BTW I'm holding as much AMC and NOK that Robinhood would let me buy the day after the purchase freeze. I figure if there is a force artificially bolstering the stock I might as well gain from the play. I'm down a few bucks but the whole market dipped yesterday so I'm expecting a rally this Monday.

Not being a SEC lawyer or regulator, jus the word "manipulation" no matter what class one is in, is a word that implies cheating.
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#8
RE: r/WallStreetBets vs Hedge funds
(January 30, 2021 at 2:53 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Not being a SEC lawyer or regulator, jus the word "manipulation" no matter what class one is in, is a word that implies cheating.

Nonsense.

Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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#9
RE: r/WallStreetBets vs Hedge funds
(January 30, 2021 at 2:53 pm)Brian37 Wrote:
(January 30, 2021 at 2:49 pm)Rhizomorph13 Wrote: Team Reddit is using collusion to manipulate stock prices. I'm ok with this because having large hedge funds short a stock is a way to manipulate stock prices so same same.

Short selling doesn't hurt companies because the loaned stock comes from a broker or in some cases private traders and stock price doesn't have much effect on the bottom line of a company. Individual employees might suffer due to their company issued options being worthless (That happened to me when I was hired at Intel. Those options aged off without benefitting me at all due to stagnant stock price). There could be an up side for the company if the price goes really low, in that they could re-acquire their stock and then sell it at a higher price to realize gains.

GME, AMC, NOK, and Blackberry are pretty much doomed due to disruptive technologies that have made, GME and AMC in particular, obsolete business models. Shorting these companies makes sense and is not predatory.

BTW I'm holding as much AMC and NOK that Robinhood would let me buy the day after the purchase freeze. I figure if there is a force artificially bolstering the stock I might as well gain from the play. I'm down a few bucks but the whole market dipped yesterday so I'm expecting a rally this Monday.

Not being a SEC lawyer or regulator, jus the word "manipulation" no matter what class one is in, is a word that implies cheating.

Like it or not, manipulation is exactly what the markets are about. Whether you are talking about some broker pumping up a penny stock or hedge funds making huge plays to push stock up or down, it is the way of stonks. If you want, you can learn the patterns and grab some cash. Either you play it safe and play stocks based on merit as I have done since February, or you fly by the seat of your pants and go long on daily spikes or short potential pump and dump stocks. It is a game and you are playing against other people.

Cheating is just some butthurt, virtue signaling word. Whatever; you gotta go get yours!
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#10
RE: r/WallStreetBets vs Hedge funds
(January 30, 2021 at 2:49 pm)Rhizomorph13 Wrote: Short selling doesn't hurt companies because the loaned stock comes from a broker or in some cases private traders and stock price doesn't have much effect on the bottom line of a company. 

I don't think the redditors are specifically mad at hedge funds for short selling as much as they're mad about their general, malicious, selfish greed.  I feel the same way.  Short sell all you want, but when you buy up exclusive control of the government, demand giant bailouts when you lose a bet and fight to keep wages below what is needed just to survive, you're scum in my book.
I live on facebook. Come see me there. http://www.facebook.com/tara.rizzatto

"If you cling to something as the absolute truth and you are caught in it, when the truth comes in person to knock on your door you will refuse to let it in." ~ Siddhartha Gautama
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