Just now on Twitter.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I didn’t say humans were beneficial, or terribly bright. But the consumption and pollution is what makes us the most important species. Because we are the only species with the capacity to wreck this planet, we are also the only species with the capacity to save it from ourselves. What’s more important than that?

 ‘The power to destroy a thing is to have absolute control over it’ - Frank Herbert.

I don’t think you’re using the term ‘apex’ correctly.

Boru

Why the hell are you trying to argue now that I am arguing anything differently?

I agree, we are the only species with the capability to wreck this planet, and we are the only species with the capability to save it from ourselves.

I agree. But as it stands now, as much as I like to stay positive, it isn't looking that good.

I think it's a difference over what the phrase 'most important species' means.

Boru

[tackattack]

Or your definition of apex. It doesn’t mean best. It means most. As the most influential species to calamity we are apex. As the most potential to understand global implications and ability to heal calamity we are apex. The moral oughts just never seem to conquer self preservation

[Brian37]

Or your definition of apex. It doesn’t mean best. It means most. As the most influential species to calamity we are apex. As the most potential to understand global implications and ability to heal calamity we are apex. The moral oughts  just never seem to conquer self preservation

If you want to argue like that, you are still making my point. 

Too many in our species are ignoring others in our species who know we are fucking things up. So it ultimately may not matter how "smart" we think we are. If you are a passenger in a car shouting at the driver that they are about to run a red light, you can be right as rain, but if they don't listen to you, your being right means nothing if the driver runs the red light and you get T-boned.

[Brian37]

Actually, if you stop and think about it, our unique ability to make the planet unlivable is a pretty strong argument for our being the most important species.

Can bears destroy the planet? Are dolphins going create mass pollution? How much do snails contribute to global warming?

How are we NOT the most important species?

Boru

The fact that our species has not existed in the entire existence of our 4 billion year old planet.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Actually, if you stop and think about it, our unique ability to make the planet unlivable is a pretty strong argument for our being the most important species.

Can bears destroy the planet? Are dolphins going create mass pollution? How much do snails contribute to global warming?

How are we NOT the most important species?

Boru

The fact that our species has not existed in the entire existence of our 4 billion year old planet.

No species has done that. How does that affect 'most important'?

Boru

[tackattack]

Or your definition of apex. It doesn’t mean best. It means most. As the most influential species to calamity we are apex. As the most potential to understand global implications and ability to heal calamity we are apex. The moral oughts  just never seem to conquer self preservation

If you want to argue like that, you are still making my point. 

Too many in our species are ignoring others in our species who know we are fucking things up. So it ultimately may not matter how "smart" we think we are. If you are a passenger in a car shouting at the driver that they are about to run a red light, you can be right as rain, but if they don't listen to you, your being right means nothing if the driver runs the red light and you get T-boned.

I wasn’t arguing against you BRIAN, I was just clarifying your language. In th OP u stated “ Humans are NOT more important than other life” and then mixed important and apex up. We are apex merely for the fact we are so important to the ecology. I understood your driving point that while we have the most,we are seldom the best for the ecology of the planet; and I agree. But, if not us then whom?

[Brian37]

If you want to argue like that, you are still making my point. 

Too many in our species are ignoring others in our species who know we are fucking things up. So it ultimately may not matter how "smart" we think we are. If you are a passenger in a car shouting at the driver that they are about to run a red light, you can be right as rain, but if they don't listen to you, your being right means nothing if the driver runs the red light and you get T-boned.

I wasn’t arguing against you BRIAN, I was just clarifying your language. In th OP u stated “ Humans are NOT more important than other life” and then mixed important and apex up. We are apex merely for the fact we are so important to the ecology. I understood your driving point that while we have the most,we are seldom the best for the ecology of the planet; and I agree. But, if not us then whom?

How are we important to ecology? Our species wasn't around 65 million years ago, and other life did fine without us. 

We are only important to ourselves now, while our species exists. I think we are not really in disagreement. We most certainly have the higher cognition to address the very problems we are self inflicting making our sustainability harder. We are not doing a good job protecting the planet. We should care about protecting the planet because it is the only home we a have. 

I was strictly speaking in cosmic time, and in that context, knowing the planet has had 5 mass extinction events we are not an apex. The only thing humans can do, or can try to do, is take care of our only home so it can sustain us longer.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I wasn’t arguing against you BRIAN, I was just clarifying your language. In th OP u stated “ Humans are NOT more important than other life” and then mixed important and apex up. We are apex merely for the fact we are so important to the ecology. I understood your driving point that while we have the most,we are seldom the best for the ecology of the planet; and I agree. But, if not us then whom?

How are we important to ecology? Our species wasn't around 65 million years ago, and other life did fine without us. 

We are only important to ourselves now, while our species exists. I think we are not really in disagreement. We most certainly have the higher cognition to address the very problems we are self inflicting making our sustainability harder. We are not doing a good job protecting the planet. We should care about protecting the planet because it is the only home we a have. 

I was strictly speaking in cosmic time, and in that context, knowing the planet has had 5 mass extinction events we are not an apex. The only thing humans can do, or can try to do, is take care of our only home so it can sustain us longer.

We are important to ecology because we keep damaging it (again, ‘important’ is not the same as ‘beneficial’) and we have the ability - though apparently not the will - to fix it.

Boru

[Brian37]

The fact that our species has not existed in the entire existence of our 4 billion year old planet.

No species has done that. How does that affect 'most important'?

Boru

Dude seriously, if you are willing to argue on a personal level that I am not important, how hard is it to figure out in the history of the universe that our species is not important? 

Humans are only important to us, while we exist. But we are not important in the scope of billions of years.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

No species has done that. How does that affect 'most important'?

Boru

Dude seriously, if you are willing to argue on a personal level that I am not important, how hard is it to figure out in the history of the universe that our species is not important? 

Humans are only important to us, while we exist. But we are not important in the scope of billions of years.

When did I argue that you’re not important?

NO species is important on a scale of billions of years, so I don’t see the relevance of singling out humans in that regard.

But we are unquestionably the most important species on this planet, right now, in regards to ourselves and to every other extant species.

Boru