DeSantis vs Newsom.

[Anomalocaris]

it is still astonishing to witness the absolutely perfect correlation between theistic fervor and the exhibition of monumental and unsurpasseable stupidity in every other area of discernment .

[Fake Messiah]

Telling children they ought to change their naturally assigned gender is another.

No one is telling children they should change their gender.

[Anomalocaris]

i’m nature does not assign a gender.   gender is a purely human method of classification,  in nature, amongst sexually reproducing organisms, the population shows a bi-modal distribution of each sexual trait.   bi-modal distribution may have two humps, but in terms of any individual trait or behavior with human perceived sexual connotations, there is usually a continuous unbroken spectrum.

nature create genes and these genes causes the development of numerous attributes in an organism.   in a sexually reproducing organism the genes are mixed and matched through recombination,  so it is impossible to say an individual’s traits are strictly even either mutations or those which have been selected for in the evolutionary past of the organism.    sexual reproduction grant individual traits unique and arrived at purely through random chance of recombination of genes.

so it is absolutely to be expected that nature will produce a spectrum of combinations of both behavioral and phenotypical traits that defy clean classification into two or three or several clear cut artificial gender classification.

to be blunt, sexual reproduction  will never be satisfied with grouping sexual organism into two clean cut genders across all behavioral and phenotypical areas, and will by its very nature be constantly experimenting with new variables and combinations.

After all, this is the very reason why sexual reproduction evolved in the first place, to develop and try out  new gene combination underpinning new behavior and physical traits far faster than normal mechanisms of mutation can possibly do.

if natural sexual reproduction never produces individual that by human perception do not Fall into a clear gender category, then that implies sexual reproduction is actually a failure and can not serve its main evolutionary role

[brewer]

Brewer, thanks for the kind words. God bless you. As for migrants, I think illegal immigration is wrong, and harms any nation, but legal, and meritorious immigration is good, and should be no problem. I probably disagree with some conservatives on that, as I think those who've emigrated legally, and committed no violent crime of any kind, should be granted amnesty. But illegal migration, especially with fentanyl deaths etc, are obviously another issue.

What are your thoughts on the same, Brewer? God Bless.

Please don't 'bless' me. My statement simply an observation and not intended to have any emotional content. I think you're just another troll.

I don't have an answer to the current migrant situation. However CNN somes up Ronnies role pretty good:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/09/politics/...index.html

[Astreja]

I know very well, and have known virtually my whole life, that my own gender is atypical (very close to the midpoint of female and male).  I don't perceive it as fluid, though, and not a choice that I made.  What cultures need is acceptance of natural variation rather than binary gender roles that force people into situations they utterly abhor.

Ok, Astreja. I accept what you say about your own experience. But natural variation is one thing. Telling children they ought to change their naturally assigned gender is another. I am of the view such discussions should take place at least after the child has become an adult at 18. Do you disagree?

Gender and sex develop at different times in the prenatal period, and due to hormonal fluctuations it's possible to have male gonads but female gender (or vice versa). The "natural" sex is the one that matches the gonads; the "natural" gender is the one that matches one's gender perception. There may be some environmental factors (e.g. endocrine-disrupting chemicals) that have caused this mismatch to become more common than in the past.

It might be desirable to delay major surgery, but discussions can start taking place as soon as a child can voice a clear and unambiguous opinion about their own gender.

[Rev. Rye]

Somebody should try Pro-Life Governor Ron De Santis for first degree murder, because it was brutal the way he destroyed Newsom in that debate!

Here's the section on the "poop map", showing what a feckless Governor Newsom really is. Conservatism works even for our Liberal Friends, whereas Liberalism fares badly for everyone together, whether Lib or Cons. Thoughts?

Administrator Notice
Link Removed per 30/30 though I think you know this already.

Because the countries with the highest standards of living are all so conservative, like Holland, Switzerland, and all the Scandinavian countries…

[Brian37]

Let's take a quick poll here at Atheism Central. How many Parents here want their children "informed" that their gender is "fluid" and a "choice", and that this ought to be changed, even without parental consent?

I daresay, when push comes to shove, even many Liberal Parents would find common cause with Conservative Parents on such issues. But we'll see more about that in the General once DeSantis beats Trump.

Trump's worst fear is the race becoming a 2 man race and it being a one-on-one. He'll run and hide until then, but not for long.

Liberals won't disown their kids if they say they are a different gender than assigned at birth. Liberal parents wont disown their kids if they say they are gay. Liberal theists and liberal atheists don't use holy books to justify being dicks to others. 

Now, as far as transgender care, there are a lot of myths and lies sold about what it is. IT IS NOT "on demand". Hormone therapy is used under age, but only after long psychiatric observation and under a doctor's care. Hormone therapy FYI is also used on cis children for non transgender reasons. Gynecomastia is one example. It is when a boy, who wants to remain a boy grows breasts. That can be hereditary and also cause anxiety and depression. Hormones are also given to females involved in gymnastics. That hormone therapy has been going on for over 60 years and has been done safely. 

Transgender surgery is not on demand. The cost is expensive for face, vocal cords, Adam's apple, chest and groin average $200-300,000 dollars for full surgery which most transgender cannot afford all of that so many only do face, or chest or just groin. And all of that is done over the age of 18. But the psychiatry and hormones are monitored for years if not a decade to insure the surgery will stick and the patient does not regret it. Regret in surgery is extremely rare, for most it is a success and it is a cure for their mental health. It is no different than fixing a cleft pallet on a kid. The kid will have better mental health as a result. The goal of transgender care isn't to confuse kids or sexualize them. It is to insure their mental well being by allowing them to be who they are. The brain does not always match the plumbing. And since you cant transplant a brain, you fix the plumbing to match the brain. Look up XXY and XYY, those are very real. 

Institutions that support transgender care are as follows:

The American Medical Association
American Psychiatric Association
American Psychological Association
American Academy Of Pediatrics
Boston's Children's Hospital 

And many others.

Instead of buying the bullshit fear of the hate filled MAGA nuts, unlearn all the bigotry you have been taught and learn from the science, and those who live it. I have personal friends with trans kids. I have conversed with trans people who have gotten the surgeries on social media.

[Rev. Rye]

I know very well, and have known virtually my whole life, that my own gender is atypical (very close to the midpoint of female and male).  I don't perceive it as fluid, though, and not a choice that I made.  What cultures need is acceptance of natural variation rather than binary gender roles that force people into situations they utterly abhor.

Ok, Astreja. I accept what you say about your own experience. But natural variation is one thing. Telling children they ought to change their naturally assigned gender is another. I am of the view such discussions should take place at least after the child has become an adult at 18. Do you disagree?

Gender and sex develop at different times in the prenatal period, and due to hormonal fluctuations it's possible to have male gonads but female gender (or vice versa). The "natural" sex is the one that matches the gonads; the "natural" gender is the one that matches one's gender perception. There may be some environmental factors (e.g. endocrine-disrupting chemicals) that have caused this mismatch to become more common than in the past.

It might be desirable to delay major surgery, but discussions can start taking place as soon as a child can voice a clear and unambiguous opinion about their own gender.

For one example of what Astreja is talking about, here’s Eden Atwood talking about her own experience:




She was born with XY chromosomes, testes, and testosterone coursing through her veins. However, she has a condition called Complete Androgen Insensitivity, meaning her body can’t do a damn thing with all that testosterone.

As for “telling children they ought to change their naturally assigned gender”: for the comparatively small number of children who want to do so, the stakes tend to be low, things like letting them dress and identify as they want, perhaps get put on puberty blockers that are fully reversible on the off chance that they want to detransition. And when I say “the off chance,” it’s because trans kids who’ve socially transitioned tend to stay trans. The youngest I’ve found anyone undergoing bottom surgery is 16, but even that’s rare.

And everything I’ve heard about the issue says that only a small proportion of people will even want to do so, and I’ve yet to find a trans activist who has a problem with that.

[h4ym4n]

ATWT, good to know. As for: "Allowing the child to be true to themself isn't a sign of lack of love.", can we agree a child should come to the age of 18 and become an adult before they make any life-altering decision like sex-change surgeries?

Brewer, thanks for the kind words. God bless you. As for migrants, I think illegal immigration is wrong, and harms any nation, but legal, and meritorious immigration is good, and should be no problem. I probably disagree with some conservatives on that, as I think those who've emigrated legally, and committed no violent crime of any kind, should be granted amnesty. But illegal migration, especially with fentanyl deaths etc, are obviously another issue.

What are your thoughts on the same, Brewer? God Bless.

That's what I am talking about. Maybe people should give him an ultimatum: either tell us what you are doing or we will not watch your movies.

Do you have the same opinion of circumcision?