Posts: 7388
Threads: 168
Joined: February 25, 2009
Reputation:
45
RE: Faith healing couple acquitted of manslaughter charges! How can this happen?
July 28, 2009 at 1:42 am
Quote:I defend the power of prayer to do other things than what these people tried to make it do
Pippy,I understand you have problems with critical thinking, but that takes the biscuit,even for you. 
There is no such fucking thing as 'the power of prayer'. Possibly because there is nothing to pray TO.
Yes I've heard the claims all my life.Sadly, I have never,ever,seen any proof whatsoever that prayer has any effect on the outcome of anything. (Well OK, you CAN develop sore knees,a sore back, sore throat and a myriad of other things if you pray in a group or out of doors)
Posts: 851
Threads: 8
Joined: April 23, 2009
Reputation:
4
RE: Faith healing couple acquitted of manslaughter charges! How can this happen?
July 28, 2009 at 8:32 am
You are both clearly misunderstanding prayer. Or more likley you are understanding what you have seen, which is a misrepresentation of prayer.
To KaratePig, no I (and I assume others) believe that god doesn't answer prayers, because prayers are not requests or questions (exept for rhetoric, i guess).
And to Padraic, the lack of a god to pray to doesn't make prayer useless or irredeemable. Although, most people that pray pray to something, so in there personal realities god does exist. The conversation they (think they) are having with her makes her independently real, if only to the pray-er.
And there is a power of prayer. You just are not seeing it. If I am deeply troubled, and I pray for help, strength, guidance... I am not asking god to bestow upon me those traits, or expecting god to add something to the equation. I am using the mental tool of a percieved higher being and perceived connection with it to frame the situation. I am trying to get myself to have more strength, to use my own guidance. It is not asking god for things, it is a simple tool to help control your reality, state-of-mind and decision making process...
I may be wrong, but that is what I mean when prayer can have redeemable qualities, that it surely can have power. It is a simple disagreeal to the statement about how can anyone believe in the power of prayer in this modern world... the answer is that you have to carefully define 'prayer'.
Thanks,
-Pip
Posts: 3989
Threads: 79
Joined: June 30, 2009
Reputation:
41
RE: Faith healing couple acquitted of manslaughter charges! How can this happen?
July 28, 2009 at 11:26 am
Pippy,
I would agree with your post; the action you are talking about is very powerful but I wouldn't call it prayer. I do a similar thing when I rock climb. I envision a chipmunk and try to imagine myself being as skillful as the chipmunk (If you have ever seen a chipmunk climb inverted blank faces it is truely a sight to behold http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=h...n%26um%3D1). I would call it meditation and it is not supernatural at all, just a way to center my focus.
It is frustrating when you have all this gear in the rock and strapped to you and some chipmunk solos by you and takes an impossibly hard route, stops in the middle, and turns 180 degrees to look at you, like he is saying, "Why the hell do you carry all that gear up with you?" then scampers away.
My years of being involved with the church taught me that prayer is meant to affect the world around you and change your fortune when god wills it. Here are a few verses I pulled up:
Gen 25:21-22 21 Isaac prayed to the LORD on behalf of his wife, because she was barren. The LORD answered his prayer, and his wife Rebekah became pregnant. 22 The babies jostled each other within her, and she said, "Why is this happening to me?" So she went to inquire of the LORD.
Exo 9:29 29 Moses replied, "When I have gone out of the city, I will spread out my hands in prayer to the LORD. The thunder will stop and there will be no more hail, so you may know that the earth is the LORD's.
Mathew 21:21-22 21 Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. 22 If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."
Rhizo
Posts: 1446
Threads: 77
Joined: October 1, 2008
Reputation:
11
RE: Faith healing couple acquitted of manslaughter charges! How can this happen?
July 28, 2009 at 11:48 am
(July 27, 2009 at 9:12 pm)Pippy Wrote: I can't help it...
I think prayer has many uses, and is very useful. These people used it wrong. Some people jump off of tall buildings, so are tall buildings all bad with no redeeming qualities? I defend the power of prayer to do other things than what these people tried to make it do. Do I still get to be a stubborn fool?
-Pip
When it comes to praying, Pippy, yes you are a fool.
 A man is born to a virgin mother, lives, dies, comes alive again and then disappears into the clouds to become his Dad. How likely is that?
Posts: 1694
Threads: 24
Joined: August 28, 2008
Reputation:
22
RE: Faith healing couple acquitted of manslaughter charges! How can this happen?
July 28, 2009 at 2:00 pm
In its most simplest definition from my former experience as an evangelist prayer is defined simply as talking to God.You can praise him in your prayers and also make request as well, as long as your requests are reasonable and within his will.Knowing his will is a whole different matter altogether.In my view as a 14 year atheist is that prayer has no effect other than to serve as a placebo.If the laying on of hands or personal communication with God makes your headache go away or makes you feel at peace after a stressful day then it's a placebo.As far as making cancer and aids miraculously disappear I think it's nothing more than delusional as seen in the case of that poor child that payed with her life for her parents ignorance and superstition.
Posts: 14259
Threads: 48
Joined: March 1, 2009
Reputation:
80
RE: Faith healing couple acquitted of manslaughter charges! How can this happen?
July 28, 2009 at 5:23 pm
(July 28, 2009 at 2:00 pm)chatpilot Wrote: You can praise him in your prayers and also make request as well, as long as your requests are reasonable and within his will. You didn't finish. You can pray what you want, without restriction. Don't expect it to always be answered tho'. Prayer on an evidential subject would be one of those unanswered prayers.
Posts: 1446
Threads: 77
Joined: October 1, 2008
Reputation:
11
RE: Faith healing couple acquitted of manslaughter charges! How can this happen?
July 28, 2009 at 5:40 pm
Frodo, I gamble on the horses all the time. Sometimes I win, more often I lose.
Is that like praying?
A man is born to a virgin mother, lives, dies, comes alive again and then disappears into the clouds to become his Dad. How likely is that?
Posts: 14259
Threads: 48
Joined: March 1, 2009
Reputation:
80
RE: Faith healing couple acquitted of manslaughter charges! How can this happen?
July 28, 2009 at 6:34 pm
erm...
LMAO 
Posts: 851
Threads: 8
Joined: April 23, 2009
Reputation:
4
RE: Faith healing couple acquitted of manslaughter charges! How can this happen?
July 28, 2009 at 9:12 pm
Hey,
Rhizo, that is very much what I mean. Prayer, in it's good form, is a meditation, a tool for centering oneself. I appreciate your bible quotes, but I don't treat the bible as divinely inspired, so I don't take my definition of prayer from that religion. As always, I had to retort with someone for saying that prayer has no positive value. That is my only disagreement. Prayer can have no power for you, but you cannot make the claim that it has no power for anyone.
Bozo, why am I a fool? I tried to make a very clear point. I think it is foolish to claim prayer has no positive qualities. When it comes to prayer, you are not a fool? You are an atheist, I think if one of us is not understanding prayer, it might be you.
It's about controlling what you can, and not controlling what you can not.
It's having someone to talk too.
Posts: 5
Threads: 0
Joined: July 27, 2009
Reputation:
0
RE: Faith healing couple acquitted of manslaughter charges! How can this happen?
July 28, 2009 at 10:26 pm
Ow, I see. Who cares if it the infant DIED, as long as praying made the parents feel good.Do you hear yourself?
|
