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Knowing everything and allowing evil
#91
RE: Knowing everything and allowing evil
Quote:4. Is Christianity hateful? Well I must admit that Christianity has been used to promote violence. But so has athiesm. Example: hitler. As much as you disagree with him, he claimed to be athiest and often quoted Darwin and wanted to kill what he saw to be the minor race. It's not fair to pass judgment on Christianity because of radicals just the same with hitler and athiesm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in...y#Atheists
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan

Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.

Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.

You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
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#92
RE: Knowing everything and allowing evil
Quote:But so has athiesm.


Mmm,false analogy. Christianity is a belief system with a formal code of ethics.Atheism is not.

Atheism is a disbelief in god(s), period. NOTHING else is inferred or maybe implied.

Godwin's law doesn't cut it.
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#93
RE: Knowing everything and allowing evil
(February 21, 2012 at 7:11 pm)padraic Wrote:
Quote:But so has athiesm.


Mmm,false analogy. Christianity is a belief system with a formal code of ethics.Atheism is not.

Atheism is a disbelief in god(s), period. NOTHING else is inferred or maybe implied.

Godwin's law doesn't cut it.

Theories of natural selection and evolution follow athiesm. The only atheists that don't believe these theories are those that don't care about origins.
Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

-4th verse of the american national anthem
Reply
#94
RE: Knowing everything and allowing evil



You are totally out there in la-la land.

It has nothing to do with this imaginary "god" punishing me more than anyone else. On the contrary I've personally had a GREAT life. No complaints here!

You're missing the point entirely by trying to turn it into a personal thing.

This God offers people "forgiveness" for what?

For not believing that the ignorant male-chauvinistic Hebrew hatred and bigotry represents "divine knowledge"?

That would be like believing that the Taliban represents divine knowledge.

Why should I need to be 'forgiven' for not wanting to believe that my creator is a complete ignorant ass?

It's a cult Chipan. It is specifically designed through the social evolution that created it, to proclaim that anyone who doesn't support those ignorant views is supposedly 'rejecting God'.

It isn't about a God supposedly punishing me more than anyone else.

It's about the utterly asinine view that any supposedly divine God would punish anyone for not wanting to believe that he's an ignorant male-chauvinistic asshole.

It's an utterly stupid Cult, and apparently you've fallen for it hook, line, and sinker.





To begin with, we're not talking about an immature child throwing a temper tantrum. We're talking about fully mature intelligent people refusing to believe that a supposedly all-benevolent God would condone the utter ignorance and stupidity of the ancient Hebrews.

Basically we're talking about people who refuse to accept that people like the Taliban speak for God. Because that's precisely how the ancient Hebrews behaved. In fact, where do you think the modern day Taliban got their ignorant ideas from? They got it directly from these same ignorant myths.

So your comparison with a child who is throwing a temper tantrum has no meaning with respect to this issue.

Moreover, physically beating on such children seldom seems to do much anyway. That is an extremely poor 'parenting' response to the problem anyway.

All you're basically asking me to believe is that a supposedly all-wise supreme being is just as lame as mere mortal humans who think that smacking their kids or using other violent means to solve problems is a good idea.

In fact, they probably got that stupidity from their belief in the Bible too.

Violence is not a sound method of teaching anyone anything.




I have no problem imagining a truly divine supreme being.

In fact, I can actually do that quite well.

What I have irresolvable problems with is imagining a truly divine being behaving and endorsing the ignorance written in the biblical cannon of Hebrew fables.

You simply can't have a supposedly all-benevolent God who is chomping at the bit to cast anyone into hell for merely not believing that he's a male-chauvinistic pig.

It's utterly absurd.




I'm not talking about atrocities that have been carried out by the followers of the Hebrew fables.

Those people do not represent "Christianity", even though they may call themselves 'Christians'.

I'm talking about actual doctrine that is "Christianity" - the Biblical Cannon, the so-called "Holy Scriptures".

That is the basis of Christianity, and it's nothing more than a hate cult that proclaims that anyone who refuses to join it and support the ENTIRE CANNON as the word of God, is a "heathen" who has chosen to turn against God and that this gives this God the right to be exceedingly cruel to such people and righteously punish them for all of eternity.

That is the hatefulness right there. It's a cult that proclaims that even God himself will hate the non-believers and non-supporters of this cult.

There's nothing divine about that. It's as hateful as it can be to the core.

It's just extremely emotional hatred aimed at non-believers with the express intent of spreading emotional terrorism to anyone who refuses to join and support the CULT.

You can't just say, "Ok I'm sorry for everything I've done in my life that may have upset God or potentially harmed another person, and I ask God for my forgiveness."

No Way!

That is NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

You must accept that Jesus is "The Christ". The only begotten son of the God of Abraham. And with that comes the absolute demand that you must also acknowledge and support that the entire Hebrew Cannon is the "Word of GOD".

Anything short of that, and you're still branded as an rebellious heathen.

So even if I told you that I'm totally sorry for everything and anything that I might have done in my life in my life that may have displeased God or harmed another, and I most certainly am willing to be forgiven for these things, which I myself wish I had never done,....

That would NOT suffice!

Nope.

A completely confession that only Jesus is GOD and that the entire Hebrew Biblical Cannon is the WORD OF GOD, is all that will do.

It has absolutely nothing to do with forgiveness or anything remotely along those lines.

All it has to do with is supporting the cult

Either support the cult or you will hatefully be branded a 'heathen' who refuses to ask God for "forgiveness"

It's nothing but a lie Chipan.

You don't need a religion to seek forgiveness for things that you might wish you had never done.

And you don't need the permission of a cult, to be accepted by a truly loving divine being.

Christianity is a hate cult. It has absolutely nothing at all to do with any loving divine being.

It's a hate cult. Period.




Now you're just kidding yourself.

Clearly you have fallen for the scam of this religion really hard. And now you are probably convinced in a deep subconscious level that if you so much as dare to question it you will be in danger of facing this God's wrath.

The whole cult is based on hatred toward non-believers. Hatred of the God himself.




All parents are wise. Some parents are not only ignorant and stupid, but some are actually criminals and child abusers.

My father was a racist. I noticed that when I was very young and I felt that he was wrong for holding that view. I still feel that way today at 62 years old. He was also a male-chauvinist. I disagree with that as a child, and still disagree with male-chauvinism today.

Comparing God with human parents is a truly dumb thing to do. That just gives people all the more reason to question the morality of God.

~~~~

And finally Chipan, I wouldn't question the motives of a truly benevolent divine being if I had reason to believe that such a being actually exists.

However, what are you doing?

You're just assuming that the Hebrew myths speak for God and then allowing those Hebrews to control your mind.

You have apparently missed my entire point. I reject the Hebrew myths precisely because I'm certain that they do not represent any all-wise all-benevolent supernatural creator.

The ancient Hebrews are not my 'parents' and they don't speak for any cosmic supernatural 'parent'.

It's just a man-made cult. Not all that much different from Greek Mythology. In fact, these tales contain a lot of the very same ideas from many different Mediterranean myths.

The God is appeased by blood sacrifices.

What? Why should I believe that an all-wise supreme being would be appeased by blood sacrifices? That was a common myth among many ancient cultures. Why should I believe that the "real creator" of the universe is as ignorant as that?

The God send a demigod through a mortal woman to save mankind.

Again, a very common superstition. Why would the real creator of the universe basically copy the same methods of previous man-made myths?

I'm sure you dismiss all the other demigod myths as being totally without merit.

The Hebrew mythology has no more merit than any other mythology.

It is not the "word" of any all-wise supreme being. It's just man-made superstitions used to support the ignorance of a particularity culture.

That's all it is. It's not the "voice" of our cosmic parent. Undecided











Christian - A moron who believes that an all-benevolent God can simultaneously be a hateful jealous male-chauvinistic pig.
Wiccan - The epitome of cerebral evolution having mastered the magical powers of the universe and is in eternal harmony with the mind of God.
Atheist - An ill-defined term that means something different to everyone who uses it.
~~~~~
Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.
Clearly Jesus (a fictitious character or otherwise) will forgive people if they merely know not what they do
For the Bible Tells us so!
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#95
RE: Knowing everything and allowing evil
What do you need forgiveness for? For the sin you have commited. Everyone has to pray for forgiveness of sin to be forgiven. Whether you've lied, cheated, stolen, or whatever. In fact, Jesus was the first to impose "don't even think about it" morality. He said "you have been told though shalt not kiss but I say unto you if you hate your brother, you have already commited murder.

Christianity a cult? Look up the definition. It's a perversion of a major religion. Christianity is a major religion so it can't be a cult. Some cults of christianity would include Mormons and such. I don't think you thinking these beliefs are ignorant results in rejection of God. I believe you rejecting God results in thinking the beliefs are ignorant.

My metaphor of a child throwing a tantrum is entirely relevant to the issue. To God, you are ignorant as a child. He still demands respect like a child does.

I know it's hard to understand that forgiveness is free. Many Christians struggle with that concept but this is how he shows the love you claim he lacks.
Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

-4th verse of the american national anthem
Reply
#96
RE: Knowing everything and allowing evil
:ROFLOL: I think you meant though shall not kill... funny misqoute of the day. Also you probably meant "He still demands respect like a parent does"

I will say I agree with abracadarbra on the point of hatred and violence is not a sound method of teaching/explaining to anyone anything.

"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post

always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
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#97
RE: Knowing everything and allowing evil
(February 22, 2012 at 4:16 am)tackattack Wrote: :ROFLOL: I think you meant though shall not kill... funny misqoute of the day. Also you probably meant "He still demands respect like a parent does"

I will say I agree with abracadarbra on the point of hatred and violence is not a sound method of teaching/explaining to anyone anything.

Lol stupid auto correct. Yes I meant kill.And parents.
Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

-4th verse of the american national anthem
Reply
#98
RE: Knowing everything and allowing evil
(February 21, 2012 at 7:45 pm)chipan Wrote: Theories of natural selection and evolution follow athiesm.

Nope. Atheism is ONLY one who lacks belief in god. One without belief in god. That is it. Atheism has got nothing to do with evolution or anything else.

Theos or θεϊστής is one with god. One who believes in a god or gods.
Atheos or αθεϊστής is one without god. One who lacks belief in god or gods.

Funny really. So simple and easy to understand and yet....so many misconceptions. Why?
Thinking
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan

Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.

Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.

You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
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#99
RE: Knowing everything and allowing evil
(February 22, 2012 at 4:52 am)Ace Otana Wrote:
(February 21, 2012 at 7:45 pm)chipan Wrote: Theories of natural selection and evolution follow athiesm.

Nope. Atheism is ONLY one who lacks belief in god. One without belief in god. That is it. Atheism has got nothing to do with evolution or anything else.

Theos or θεϊστής is one with god. One who believes in a god or gods.
Atheos or αθεϊστής is one without god. One who lacks belief in god or gods.

Funny really. So simple and easy to understand and yet....so many misconceptions. Why?
Thinking

You put it out of context to misrepresent me. If you would have read the very next sentence it would say any athiest has to accept evolution to explain any type of origins (paraphrased). This is how it ties in.
Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

-4th verse of the american national anthem
Reply
RE: Knowing everything and allowing evil
Quote:Theories of natural selection and evolution follow evidence.

Fixed that for you. Atheists don't "have to believe" in anything to explain anything. Atheism does not offer an explanation, atheism does not require knowledge of our origins.

I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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