Help and advice needed to save a soul from damnation

[Chuff]

Hi guys

I received this through a PM on facebook last night:

Please visit these two websites it may change your view on Christianity and help you understand why I strongly believe in God and that it is a big part of my life.
http://www.eternal-productions.org/101science.html
http://www.eternal-productions.org/101prophecy.html

I’ve seen websites like this many times before, and passed them off as fundamentalist bullshit.

However

This was sent to me by my own Son

He is 13 and lives with his mother and grandmother, his grandmother is the source of his indoctrination into Christianity (along with mild racist and homophobic tendencies)

I live a couple of hundred miles away but have always seen him regularly, we have a weekend together every few weeks since he was tiny.

I’ve known for a long time that he saw himself as Christian, and he also knows that I am not. He has always categorically refused to talk to me about it, and the subject has become taboo.

This is the first time he has openly brought it up to me, so I want to think very carefully about how I respond.

It is a very sensitive situation, I could quite easily go in too heavy handed and we would revert to taboo status again

I see this as an opportunity to put everything I’ve learned to some good use and to offer him my perspective


This is so important to me that I wanted to take my time to compose my reply, and am asking for any advice / ideas from you about how I might respond – this is not some idiot fundie that I want to destroy with logic. This is my child, my own flesh and blood, and I want to do whatever I can to avoid upsetting him but use this opportunity for something positive.


And regarding the actual website… Sheesh… This is not your normal Church of England half-arsed Christianity. This is hardcore, end of the world second coming bollocks.

I looked through some of it and was amazed how bad it is

Choosing one at random , from the delightfully titled 101 Last Days Prophecies:

4. Global communications foreseen (Revelation 11:9-10; 17:8) The Bible prophesies that the entire world will see certain events unfold. The invention of the television and the deployment of global satellite networks during the 20th century allow news to travel the world at the speed of light for the first time ever. Remember that in the apostle John's day, news traveled at the speed of horseback.

So I clicked the link, and was baffled to read:

Rev 11:9 Then [those] from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow [fn] their dead bodies to be put into graves.
Rev 11:10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.
Rev 17:8 "The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is

And I’m left wondering what on earth these passages have to do with their original assertion. I can’t see any link whatsoever tenuous or otherwise.

The website appears to be Nostradamus for God lovers, but I don’t understand what their angle is. What is it for, what is it supposed to prove, and what the fuck is my kid reading this poison for.

Oh and the delicious irony of this whole situation and its timing hasn't escaped me - I posted only yesterday about an essay my stepdaughter wrote here

If this doesnt demonstrate that religion is defined solely by accident of birth and the environment you are raised in I don't know what does.

[NoMoreFaith]

This is your son, militant atheism is not appropriate. What a tough situation.

What would worry me most is the motivation behind the message, I would be concerned if my own son thought I needed 'saving'.

I wouldn't take the atheist route, its too brutal to the.. stupidity on that site, so maybe pick up references from respected christian scholars on these arguments instead of atheistic ones.

Online communication is a terrible medium for a risky conversation, so I'd be more likely to offer to meet up soon, have a fun day out together, and if he wants to talk about it, you're happy to do so, if hes cool with the fact you disagree.

Very easy to make a catastrophic misstep here.. tread carefully.. but its an awfully complex situation to really advise on, you know him best of all.

[Chuff]

Hey pal, thanks for taking onboard the sensitivity of this, I have been on a bit of an emotional rollercoaster since I received it.
I see it as him finally reaching out and opening it up for discussion but I know I could easily make a false step.
He is coming to stay with us in a few weeks for a week so I'll probably broach it then.
I feel like it's a one off chance to get it right which is why I'm asking you clever lot for advice :-)

[KichigaiNeko]

13...a very sensitive age for Father and son.

What ever you do, let him KNOW / understand that he has YOU and that counts for alot. No matter where he is you can be there to help and religion has nothing that can break that.

All my hopes Chuff

[Chuff]

Thanks Kichi

Considering we live apart we've always been very close, and I love him no matter what and he knows that.

I have hope because he has such a bright and enquiring mind, and seems to have a good scientific and logical thought process - It's just all mixed up with this other stuff.

I didn't sleep well last night mulling this over, my feelings have ranged between anger at what I read and what he's been reading to real excitement that we might be able to finally discuss it now.

....

Your signature really strikes a chord with me today!

[KichigaiNeko]

Know how you feel mate. My kids Dad had the same drama.

But for all that they turned out OK. I like to think that although 'Daddy' and I could not live under the same roof we raised a pair of kids that felt at home anywhere and free to inquire into anything. If the "world didn't like that?...the fuck the world"

Your little one is still young but I will warn you that he "will hate you" at some point but will turn around when maturity kicks in. Sleep well Daddy Chuff...Your little boy is growing up!

[Loading Please Wait]

This is a really tough situation. I don't know how you and your son's relationship is, you said you see each other regularly, but I don't know how sensitive he is.

I would suggest actually talking to him, face to face about it. Not holding him hostage. He needs to want to hear what you have to say. At least tell him, you're only going to listen to him, if he listens to you.

Great advice up there ^^ also

[frankiej]

I guess my "remove the head or destroy the brain" advice doesn't help in this situation... sorry, pal.

[Reforged]

I'm sure your sons clever, just point out the simple flaws in logic and explain why people want to believe this stuff. In my experience once you've given a child the simple tools needed to seperate fact from superstition they tend to keep them handy. Thats what I learnt from my nephew anyway and hes 8 going on 9, the grandmother on the other side of the family tried to teach them about voodoo from her country of origin. Their school also atempted to teach them about God. These are influences that do not request permission and impose their views on a human being when they are in their most vulnerable psychological state. Giving them the tools to defend themselves is not militant, its an obligation to their well-being.

Thats how I see it ayway.

[Kayenneh]

Talk. Let him ask the questions, instead of you telling him how it its. Listen. Be patient. It's a potential landmine, but I think trying to have a conversation that might go wrong, is so much better than ignoring this.