Expelled

[Daystar]

Hello everyone, it looks like you have a good forum here with some thoughtful input.

I am a 41 year old ex-atheist turned believer. 17 years ago in an attempt to debunk the Bible through a deep hatred for religion I began a careful study and was so impressed with the Bible that I became a believer; my hatred for organized religion and religious thought grew stronger because of its bloody history, and more importantly its gross misrepresentation of the Bible.

I am a non practicing homosexual and though I am somewhat reluctant to call myself a Christian because of the pagan influence, history and sort of lobotomized lack of thought rampant in modern day Xianity, I am actually a disciple (one who follows the discipline) of Christ Jesus. My religious experience and influence can most aptly be compared to the Jehovah's Witnesses, but I am not, have never been and never will be a JW.

My main interest is in the Bible, with a slight interest in other religions like Buddhism, Confucianism, Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, Shinto and Taoism. I used to have a website that included religious texts from each of these which I have read, such as the Dhammapada, Four Noble Truths, Analects, Bhagavad-Gita, Pirque Aboth, Nihongi, Quran, Tao Te Ching, and Chuang Tzu. It is important to point out that these works were considered from a religious curiosity and their teachings do not compare nor should be confused with the Bible.

I enjoy discussion with atheists and skeptics over Christians for two reasons. 1.) they are usually more knowledgeable of the Bible and 2.) they don't let religious 'thinking' get in the way. I believe everyone is religious because to be religious simply requires a strict system of belief, with or without a deity. It is a fine line that divides the quixotic and the mundane.

[leo-rcc]

Hi there and welcome to the forum.

Well my first and most important question would be: What is your definition of god and Christianity, and what makes you think it has merit?

[Eilonnwy]

I am a non practicing homosexual

There is no such thing. If someone is straight and not dating anyone are they a non practicing heterosexual? I'm a bisexual and I currently am single, but I don't consider it non practicing I'm just single because I haven't found anyone I'm interested in boy or girl at this period in my life.

I actually find that statement offensive given it implies the arguments that Christian's give about homosexuality being a choice and that you can pray the gay away. If you're are homosexual then you are homosexual whether you are engaging in relationships or not.

Unless you think being a practicing homosexual means being flamboyant and out about, which is absurd.

[Daystar]

Hi there and welcome to the forum.

Well my first and most important question would be: What is your definition of god and Christianity, and what makes you think it has merit?

Thanks for the welcome, leo.

God is a word which in the Hebrew (variations of El) and Greek (theos) language mean "mighty" or "strong one." Anything and anyone can be a god. In the Bible the following are referred to as gods. Jehovah, Moses, the Judges of Israel, Satan, Jesus, Dagon, Baal, Molech, Tammuz etc. Sticks, stones, idols even ones own belly. Anything that is perceived as mighty or is venerated is a god.

Christianity is a supposed following of the teachings of Christ, though, as Paul foresaw in 2 Timothy 4:3-4 it has been corrupted by myth (from the Greek mythos and the Latin fabulas - fables) such as the pagan trinity, immortal soul, hellfire, cross, rapture, Christmas, Easter etc.

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I am a non practicing homosexual

There is no such thing. If someone is straight and not dating anyone are they a non practicing heterosexual? I'm a bisexual and I currently am single, but I don't consider it non practicing I'm just single because I haven't found anyone I'm interested in boy or girl at this period in my life.

I actually find that statement offensive given it implies the arguments that Christian's give about homosexuality being a choice and that you can pray the gay away. If you're are homosexual then you are homosexual whether you are engaging in relationships or not.

Unless you think being a practicing homosexual means being flamboyant and out about, which is absurd.

Hello, Eilonnwy, thanks for your thoughts; I meant no offense. What I mean by non practicing homosexual is that I am homosexual. There is nothing I can or would do about that. It is a big part of who I am. I believe it is learned behavior. It means that I am gay but I don't practice as such. I don't have gay sex because I follow the Bible as a guide.

I have never heard anything about 'praying the gay way' but it sounds pretty stupid to me.

[leo-rcc]

Hi there and welcome to the forum.

Well my first and most important question would be: What is your definition of god and Christianity, and what makes you think it has merit?

Thanks for the welcome, leo.

God is a word which in the Hebrew (variations of El) and Greek (theos) language mean "mighty" or "strong one." Anything and anyone can be a god. In the Bible the following are referred to as gods. Jehovah, Moses, the Judges of Israel, Satan, Jesus, Dagon, Baal, Molech, Tammuz etc. Sticks, stones, idols even ones own belly. Anything that is perceived as mighty or is venerated is a god.

Wauw, so much for monotheistic religion then.

Christianity is a supposed following of the teachings of Christ, though, as Paul foresaw in 2 Timothy 4:3-4 it has been corrupted by myth (from the Greek mythos and the Latin fabulas - fables) such as the pagan trinity, immortal soul, hellfire, cross, rapture, Christmas, Easter etc.

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Great, now all I need is the why do you think it has merit part of the question.

Hello, Eilonnwy, thanks for your thoughts; I meant no offense.

..snip..

I have never heard anything about 'praying the gay way' but it sounds pretty stupid to me.

Well it does to me too but for a different reason than yours I expect.

Anyway: What does God/Jesus/Baal/FSM/Buddha/Ganesh care who you sleep with or how? That sounds even more stupid to me.

[Eilonnwy]

Hello, Eilonnwy, thanks for your thoughts; I meant no offense. What I mean by non practicing homosexual is that I am homosexual. There is nothing I can or would do about that. It is a big part of who I am. I believe it is learned behavior. It means that I am gay but I don't practice as such. I don't have gay sex because I follow the Bible as a guide.

I have never heard anything about 'praying the gay way' but it sounds pretty stupid to me.

"Leanred behavior?" Ask any homosexual or bisexual whose mind is not clouded with the bible. It is not a learned behaviour, it is who you are. Intrinsic. Saying it is a learned behaviour once again implies that choice that Christian's insist we have, and you seem to recognize that fact but at the same time don't. The fact that you would try to supress an aspect of yourself because a book told you too, well I find it outrageous.

If you follow the Bible as a guide then do you have slaves? Because the Bible not only encourages slaves but gives you all the guidelines you need to have slaves.

[Tiberius]

I agree with Eilonnwy. You are simply in denial about your homosexuality and think that by claiming you "don't practice" you are somehow protected because a silly old book says you are in the wrong.

Might I inquire why the title of the thread is "Expelled"? Are you going to talk about the movie or something?

[Daystar]

Wauw, so much for monotheistic religion then.

Seriously? I don't see a conflict there. The Bible is pretty clear that there are many 'gods' and 'lords' but to us (the believer) there is only one God above all. Moses, the Judges, angels, Jesus, Satan etc. were gods (mighty) but only Jehovah was to us the one true god above all others. God doesn't necessarily imply venerated or worshipped.

Great, now all I need is the why do you think it has merit part of the question.

Why do I think it has merit or why does it have merit to me? To me it (God and true Christianity) is important because it tells us about creation and the creator. What, simply, is going on. I think it is important to be presented to everyone because of that - so that each person can be educated and make an informed decision regarding the subject. This is important to the skeptic and the believer alike.

Anyway: What does God/Jesus/Baal/FSM/Buddha/Ganesh care who you sleep with or how? That sounds even more stupid to me.

There was a purpose for creation which the creator set in place and homosexuality is counter productive to that purpose and therefore detestable to the creator, Jehovah God.

The question from your perspective, though, isn't really what God cares about my sexuality because I have a choice. To you and most skeptics it is a question of cultural tolerance. Lets say that someone had a sexual attraction to animals or vegetables. Culturally that isn't as acceptable as homosexuality is now.

Joseph was probably about 32 years old when he married Mary who was probably 14 - 16 years old. Culturally that was the norm but now it isn't. So your tolerance regarding sexual morality is no less limited than mine. It depends upon a fixed morality. Traditional and cultural.

[Edwardo Piet]

Hello, Eilonnwy, thanks for your thoughts; I meant no offense. What I mean by non practicing homosexual is that I am homosexual. There is nothing I can or would do about that. It is a big part of who I am. I believe it is learned behavior. It means that I am gay but I don't practice as such. I don't have gay sex because I follow the Bible as a guide.

I have never heard anything about 'praying the gay way' but it sounds pretty stupid to me.

"Leanred behavior?" Ask any homosexual or bisexual whose mind is not clouded with the bible. It is not a learned behaviour, it is who you are. Intrinsic. Saying it is a learned behaviour once again implies that choice that Christian's insist we have, and you seem to recognize that fact but at the same time don't. The fact that you would try to supress an aspect of yourself because a book told you too, well I find it outrageous.

If you follow the Bible as a guide then do you have slaves? Because the Bible not only encourages slaves but gives you all the guidelines you need to have slaves.

From what I understand I agree totally.

[Daystar]

"Learned behavior?" Ask any homosexual or bisexual whose mind is not clouded with the bible. It is not a learned behaviour, it is who you are. Intrinsic. Saying it is a learned behaviour once again implies that choice that Christian's insist we have, and you seem to recognize that fact but at the same time don't. The fact that you would try to suppress an aspect of yourself because a book told you too, well I find it outrageous.

If you follow the Bible as a guide then do you have slaves? Because the Bible not only encourages slaves but gives you all the guidelines you need to have slaves.

Being a learned behavior doesn't imply that one has a choice. The traditional and cultural aspects of early development are similar - vague and subtle influences we may not be aware of forming who we are. The issue of choice regarding homosexuality isn't really relevant, though. Whether or not I chose homosexuality as a sexual preference (choice in ones sexuality is an idiotic notion anyway - nobody chooses their sexuality) is no more of your business than yours is mine, now is it.

Why should you judge me and my beliefs and choices I have made regarding sexuality whatever they may be? I don't yours.

I don't suppress my sexuality, that would be impossible and deceptive. I can however, control my actions.

Slavery is an issue we can discuss in full detail later, if you like, but suffice it to say that the Bible was much more humane about slavery than the current political entities by far. Most atheists are political much the same as the faithful are religious. I don't want slaves, but acknowledge that in the past every culture that I can think of did at one time.

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I agree with Eilonnwy. You are simply in denial about your homosexuality and think that by claiming you "don't practice" you are somehow protected because a silly old book says you are in the wrong.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion even though it is wrong. The Law of Moses was the laws of an ancient nation that - after Jesus - no longer applies to anyone. Homosexuality was one of the few portions of that law that were continued to the Christian. They apply only to Christians. You can't be a practicing homosexual and Christian. You have to choose between the two. Who are you to question this?

Might I inquire why the title of the thread is "Expelled"? Are you going to talk about the movie or something?

I just saw the movie and it inspired me to come here after having earlier abandoned the idea of this type of discussion.

We can talk about the movie - as you American persons call it - if you like, but typically I find the Creation / Evolution as well as Trinitarian discussion to be a total waste of time.