The Bible-Boooooring

[jstrodel]

2 is false and the argument fails.


2. It is not true that supernatural experiences have never been confirmed to exist. It may be true that they have not been confirmed by you to exist. Study the Welsh revival, John G Lake, Heidi Baker, Smith Wigglesworth, George Mueller, the Catholic mystics, etc. There are plenty of experiences that have been confirmed to exist. Whether they can be proved in a particle accelerator lab, that I don't know.

2. All evidence indicates that they are always fabrications or deliberately designed to be impossible to disprove (this is obviously way too strong, and you could not possibly produce evidence that miraculous occurance was all false)


How much time have you spent in your entire life studying supernatural experiences? I lived in a mystical community where I used to pray for about 30 hours a week. I lived in a community of people where everyone was experiencing miracles. There were hundreds of people, everyone was seeking God together. I can promise you it was not insanity, because everyone there was experiencing the same thing.

I can see your mean spirited, proud attitude accuse me to my face of things I have seen directly, but you do not receive my testimony. An honest person would accept a weaker form of 2, saying perhaps that "It is not possible to prove that miracles exist from the methods of science that I use" and infer 3 "It is likely the person is insane, ignorant, or lying".

Notice that you did not even include the three possible options, you rushed to smear me with psychiatric labels to gloss over any chance of having to open your mind to a real debate on the supernatural. You would prefer to live in your materialistic world of prejudice and not consider anything you think is below you.

Well, read the books that I posted. Prove me wrong. Look online. If you want everything proven to the scientific methods you accept, you demand that the entire world be your servant. Why not look at things in their own light?

[Ryantology]

2 is false and the argument fails.

Prove it. Demonstrate the validity of your 'spiritual' experience.

[Esquilax]

You didn't even address the argument. Typical. An honest person would just say "I have no way of knowing whether this is true". But you have no problem ascribing a psychiatric cause to something with no evidence.

You're right, I have no evidence except the vast preponderance of scientific and real world experience telling me that the thing you have claimed is most likely impossible. Don't pretend that I'm just making an assertion out of nowhere.

I realize that to make a significant claim, such as to have experience God directly is a serious claim. It need not be accepted as absolute truth, it is not wrong to believe that, perhaps the person had a psychiatric issue. That is different from intentionally maligning someone with psychiatric terminology, mocking, coming from "liberals" who are so compassionate they use condescending labels designed for the mentally ill and tactics reminscent of Stalinism.

Interesting. You claim we're intentionally maligning you and then in the next sentence you link us to Stalin.

I want to be very clear, here: I'm not mocking you. I just don't believe you. And I have my reasons for doing so, that have nothing to do with wanting freedom from religion or free reign to sin, and everything to do with the fact that typically, claims such as yours are borne out false, or at least never confirmed to be true. If everything in my life up until now has shown me that when people claim to be in touch with god they're either lying or unbalanced, am I really that unjustified in thinking the next person in line to make exactly the same claims is the same?

I sometimes have a hard time deciding which side of the lying/ill divide you're on, because you often say very ridiculous things and that makes me think you're trolling, but if you're serious about the things you claim then I genuinely believe there's something up in your mind.

But you're right: I don't know for sure. How can I possibly, given that your personal experiences aren't transferable to me and I've never had any of my own?

No one has produced a single piece of evidence that I am crazy, other than the fact that I have posted a supernatural form of evidence.

Just claiming that something is supernatural doesn't shield it from being criticized or from having connotations. If I'd come to you claiming that I'd met an all powerful supernatural being who told me, in a manner that I find to be absolutely certain, that the god jstrodel believes in doesn't exist, you would think there's something wrong, either with my story or with me personally, right?

I am not saying this because I am so defensive that I need to vent my anger, I am saying this because I am genuinely concerned for your salvation and want you to realize how far you have tilted your falsely called "critical thinking methods" against religion to prove what your heart wants, which is freedom from religion.

Come on now, don't do that. If there's one thing that pisses me off on these forums, it's people getting it into their heads that they can tell me what I believe, and have that stick. Don't tell me what my thought processes are, strodel. Especially coming off of a post where you chastised me for saying things with certainty when I have no conclusive evidence.

[jstrodel]

PM me and I will give you my number and share the details of it.

[Esquilax]

Feel free to PM me with your story, strodel. Just don't expect that I'll give it a pass; I will be critically examining it.

[CapnAwesome]

PM me and I will give you my number and share the details of it.

Why don't you just share it here? Why so shy?

[Joel]

PM me and I will give you my number and share the details of it.

Why don't you just share it here? Why so shy?

Jstrodel should make a thread on it, explaining to us his experiences.

[CleanShavenJesus]

No, an ad hominem attack is an irrelevant statement made to discredit people. This is different from criticizing individuals or movements which is fair game. They are not ad hominem, and I have provided evidence.

You have never once provided a shred of evidence for any sort of attack you made on atheists. And don't use your made-up percentages this time.

[downbeatplumb]

I lived in a mystical community where I used to pray for about 30 hours a week. I lived in a community of people where everyone was experiencing miracles. There were hundreds of people, everyone was seeking God together. I can promise you it was not insanity, because everyone there was experiencing the same thing.

Sounds like:

A: you all had too much time on your hands and
B: were brain washing yourselves.

[Esquilax]

PM me and I will give you my number and share the details of it.

Why don't you just share it here? Why so shy?

Actually, yeah! Do that instead! If you're so sure in the experiences you've had, expose them to the metaconsciousness!