Childhood indoctrination

[Aractus]

If I was on the opposite side of this argument I'd be worried to have Christians like yourself on my side, would make me really question my position. Glad you're on the other side, stay there and die as you were born, smart as a piece of plywood and with about as much independent thought

Thanks for the compliment! Plywood's certainly an intelligent form of wood - strong and yet versatile!

Go cry some more.

[KichigaiNeko]

Actually Daniel, have you noticed that silk is making a come-back? A lovely fabric it is too! And this years clip is very good... 19 microns or less very fine wool from Tasmania and there are farms in Victoria that are producing some excellent wool fibre with the CSIRO working on eliminating the need for muelsing and shearing...still experimental I dare say.

I would really like to see more done in the way of utilising Hemp Fibre in place of the irrigation heavy cotton in this country and I think trials are under-way in this area.

The Northern hemisphere, you have to remember Daniel, Has had 2000 years of people shitting and dying and building up a top soil layer that reaches for metres. here in OZ we count ourselves lucky to find a topsoil layer of 10-30 cm. It isn't much to work with, what grinds my gears is pontificating ignoramuses who think they everything but know nothing of the earth and it's ecosystems and the interdependence of everything on everything else.

[Aractus]

I would really like to see more done in the way of utilising Hemp Fibre in place of the irrigation heavy cotton in this country and I think trials are under-way in this area.

Hemp has certain uses, but you have to remember it's far more coarse than cotton, so it's not desirable for most forms of clothing (except hats and maybe shoes).

[KichigaiNeko]

Ahh well there's the rub. ARE these animals "Happy" to be eaten from the inside out by fly maggots?

No, of course not, and I'm not arguing to produce these overbred animals and then leave them alone, just don't produce them in the first place.

Again too late to the table endie, These "over-bred" animals are what have given you your first world elitism

The question really is: Do you really want to support an industry that produces millions of these overbred animals who are not able to survive unless we mutilate them? The best answer is and remains: No, just don't buy it until they get their act together.

Short answer is YES, you still are striving to set yourself up as something OUTSIDE the environment that sustains you. You have not displayed any intimate knowledge of farming practices or animal husbandry worthy of your pontification. You are coming across as an intellectual "Guppy" and a worthless humane being with your statements. You see YOU can afford to "starve yourself" and "not buy it" and that is your privilege. The rest of the world does not have that luxury and will buy from even worse perpetrators of animal cruelty.. thus making your sacrifices null and void, whilst in the mean time... those animals that you think you have "saved" get to suffer the fly strike, starvation, dehydration and death and again making your sacrifices null and void. Animal Activism, as it currently stands, creates more cruelty than it saves and is therefore a useless exercise on "ethical grounds". Better, as festive posited, ...{paraphrasing} "A better practice that is enforced for the care, slaughter and treatment of our animal livestock is called for" rather than this emotive childish nonsense. Hold your breath as much as you like, nothing is going to change whilst the rest of us get on with striving for better practice and enjoying meat.

This is only MY opinion mind you

[thesummerqueen]

Dear person who thinks they know about shit and soil,

"Big Ag" is not like home gardening. Either you use massive quantities of shit, or you use massive quantities of chemical fertilizers. Or you kill massive quantities of human beings.

Home gardening is not the same as mass-food production for our population. For making that implication, you ARE an idiot.

[Aractus]

No, of course not, and I'm not arguing to produce these overbred animals and then leave them alone, just don't produce them in the first place. The question really is: Do you really want to support an industry that produces millions of these overbred animals who are not able to survive unless we mutilate them? The best answer is and remains: No, just don't buy it until they get their act together.

OK, I know I said this ages ago, so let's try again now. Let's say that I accept that there is a valid ethical argument. Now let's consider the environmental argument. Many of the uses that wool has - for instance as a hard-wearing textile fabric (as used on chairs, lounges, etc) cannot be matched with cotton or synthetics. Said fabrics do not pass rub tests - I'm sure you're aware of this - they simply do not last as long as wool. Now your main two alternatives to this are vinyl and leather. I actually don't know the difference in durability between vinyl and leather, however what I do know is that leather folds and vinyl doesn't. In other words, vinyl is fucking uncompfortable! Now what I simply don't understand is that you know there is a huge advantage to wool - environmentally - and yet you oppose it only on the grounds of ethics, as if the environmental concerns are not important!

[KichigaiNeko]

I would really like to see more done in the way of utilising Hemp Fibre in place of the irrigation heavy cotton in this country and I think trials are under-way in this area.

Hemp has certain uses, but you have to remember it's far more coarse than cotton, so it's not desirable for most forms of clothing (except hats and maybe shoes).

No mate. I think there have been inroads to use it in place of cotton (or equivalent denier) Mind you NOTHING can replace Cotton and American Cotton is of the best quality ( Gee I wonder why?) silk can also be made here in Oz and our wool is second to none (even the Kiwis are hard pressed to get the denier right)

Like I said before, I PREFER Wool, Silk, Hemp, Flax and Leather for it's biodegradability and sustainability over the petrol-chemical synthetics.

---

Dear person who thinks they know about shit and soil,

"Big Ag" is not like home gardening. Either you use massive quantities of shit, or you use massive quantities of chemical fertilizers. Or you kill massive quantities of human beings.

Home gardening is not the same as mass-food production for our population. For making that implication, you ARE an idiot.

Who me? Sorry did I come across that way?

[thesummerqueen]

No, the person who started it. Couldn't remember if it was Forb or Endian, and couldn't be arsed to go back and find out.

I thought it bore explaining in general anyway.

[Aractus]

No mate. I think there have been inroads to use it in place of cotton (or equivalent denier) Mind you NOTHING can replace Cotton and American Cotton is of the best quality ( Gee I wonder why?) silk can also be made here in Oz and our wool is second to none (even the Kiwis are hard pressed to get the denier right)

Like I said before, I PREFER Wool, Silk, Hemp, Flax and Leather for it's biodegradability and sustainability over the petrol-chemical synthetics.

Well sure, maybe you can make a hemp-denim Jacket, but I'm still sceptical to it being used for other forms of clothing - underwear, trousers, shirts - like I said it's a more coarse fabric and while it's more durable than cotton I don't think there's this great big conspiracy against it that you think there is!

[KichigaiNeko]

No, the person who started it. Couldn't remember if it was Forb or Endian, and couldn't be arsed to go back and find out.

I thought it bore explaining in general anyway.

Well it does seem to need to be explained to these idiots just what is involved in "Big Ag" and Home Gardening.

By the way, how is your "container Gardening" going? I have the unlucky happen-stance to find that everything I plant, grows... more than I need or expect! lol Thank the gods for CowPoo, Chookpoo and Sheepoo! My "soil" (if you can call it that ..) is nothing but limestone sand; current issues with "leaf curl on citrus" and just keeping the water up to the roots.