From theist to agnostic to atheist to agnostic to freethinker and...

[Edwardo Piet]

So much humility that we all (but only us men apparently, the women are more sane I guess) too gullible to doubt the non-existence of an imagined benevolent dictator.

[pocaracas]

We're all in the process of 'biting the dust' friend, it's just that some of us have found way out of this insane world hell bent on destroying itself and the least we can do is to try and share it with others. If others truly prefer the way of the world, so be it, I will do my best not to bother them again.

What other way is there?

In order to see and follow the way of truth we must first be prepared to face up to the truth about ourselves.

Pride has the ability to convince a man he is the better man when he compares himself to certain others. This pride allows him and causes him at times to regard those others with disrespect, even contempt. From such a mindset it becomes easy to dismiss the true word of others as being irrelevant, unimportant or untrue whenever their statements are seen to conflict with any of his own selfish or self-important desires and plans. Whilst his pride is in control it becomes easy for him to cheat on and lie to anyone who he does not care for, especially those who he assesses as being less important or inferior to himself. As much as he is ready to ignore the truth and deceive others for his own gain, so he becomes equally ready to ignore the truth and deceive himself into thinking how good and right he is. The half-truths and lies of others are then easily welcomed by him as absolute truth whenever they feed and reinforce his feeling of superiority and pleasure. For as much as his self first desires become his needs, so also does his cravings for more leave him more vulnerable and subject to the temptations and corruption of those most crafty and evil. Their lies become more easily accepted by him as truth and therefore become more easily woven into his memory as truth.


From such lie infested memories are man's decisions and judgements too often formed. Whatever is being reasoned and perceived as truth and reality to all who have been corrupted by pride then is all too often an illusion. This state of mind is to some degree the inherited scourge of us all, breeding contempt and hatred for the truth along with paranoia, conflict, killing and destruction, just as the history of man will clearly testify.

Nice description of religion.

But what does it have to do with my question?

[ITChick]

Do we really have to do this in introductions?

Mods - can we please be mean to old man? While I "try" to follow forum rules, they do interfere with "taking the piss" from time to time.

[Jackalope]

Mods - can we please be mean to old man?

Not as long as he stays in this thread.

[bennyboy]

-edit-

bump.

[old man]

Nice description of religion.

This is not a description of religion but a description of the mental state of the human race. Do you agree with what I wrote in my previous post concerning that state?

If not, can you tell me what the first sentence is you disagree with and explain why you disagree with it?

“Pride has the ability to convince a man he is the better man when he compares himself to certain others. This pride allows him and causes him at times to regard those others with disrespect, even contempt. From such a mindset it becomes easy to dismiss the true word of others as being irrelevant, unimportant or untrue whenever their statements are seen to conflict with any of his own selfish or self-important desires and plans. Whilst his pride is in control it becomes easy for him to cheat on and lie to anyone who he does not care for, especially those who he assesses as being less important or inferior to himself. As much as he is ready to ignore the truth and deceive others for his own gain, so he becomes equally ready to ignore the truth and deceive himself into thinking how good and right he is. The half-truths and lies of others are then easily welcomed by him as absolute truth whenever they feed and reinforce his feeling of superiority and pleasure. For as much as his self first desires become his needs, so also does his cravings for more leave him more vulnerable and subject to the temptations and corruption of those most crafty and evil. Their lies become more easily accepted by him as truth and therefore become more easily woven into his memory as truth.


From such lie infested memories are man's decisions and judgements too often formed. Whatever is being reasoned and perceived as truth and reality to all who have been corrupted by pride then is all too often an illusion. This state of mind is to some degree the inherited scourge of us all, breeding contempt and hatred for the truth along with paranoia, conflict, killing and destruction, just as the history of man will clearly testify.”

[pineapplebunnybounce]

@old man, there are so many things wrong with that passage I don't even know where to start. But to begin with, your first sentence. Prove that.

Is it pride or is it reality that allows us to compare ourselves to others and form conclusions? Is it not an important skill that allows us to work with others and measure up our enemies? If I believe I'm a better scientist than a friend of mine who's doing a business degree, am I being prideful or am I being honest? Without this ability to discern others' how am I to make decisions everyday? Is it prideful of me to dismiss a witch doctor's advice when I'm sick because it doesn't comply with my existing knowledge about medicine? Or is it just common sense?

[ITChick]

Old man, there is nothing wrong with pride.

Pride allows you to be proud of your work and makes you achieve in your career. Pride helps you to take care of your appearance and health. Pride helps you to take care of your surroundings.

But, like all things (even chocolate) too much pride or misapplied pride is a bad thing (as you have stated).

Pride also helps to stop people from wasting my time. I would say with a fair amount of certainty that I am a better computer programmer than you. I'll refuse to listen to any advice you give me in development unless you can prove me wrong. If you do, I'll be all ears (I do read the blogs from the leaders in the field and try to apply it. I'll never be as good as they are but it is something to aspire to).

Because I'm a software developer, I'm also rather good at solving problems (it is what I do for a living). I would also say that there is a fairly good chance that I am better at solving probelms than you are (as you are just a random person from the internet) - yep, pride speaking. I am willing to give you a shot though.

I lack a belief in a god. More specifically, I do not believe in your god. You seem to think this is a problem. Why?

(In computing terms: what is the customer impact? )

[Mister Agenda]

Usually when someone introduces themselves I have a standard quip. But this giant wall O text threw up a red flag. So skip to the bottom and what do you know, a theist claiming they were an atheist and addiction caused it and if we just find god, we will be saved.

See how I can say the same thing with fewer words.

Me, too. I've learned to skip to the end when someone starts with a large block of text. It doesn't always end with announcing they're a Christian but I have trouble remembering the few times it didn't.

It's an intro. You have to be on a mission to blow your first thousand words on your first post.

---

Old man, look at my life, I'm a lot like you were. Only in reverse.


Welcome to the forum.

[pocaracas]

Nice description of religion.

This is not a description of religion but a description of the mental state of the human race. Do you agree with what I wrote in my previous post concerning that state?

If not, can you tell me what the first sentence is you disagree with and explain why you disagree with it?

“Pride has the ability to convince a man he is the better man when he compares himself to certain others. This pride allows him and causes him at times to regard those others with disrespect, even contempt. From such a mindset it becomes easy to dismiss the true word of others as being irrelevant, unimportant or untrue whenever their statements are seen to conflict with any of his own selfish or self-important desires and plans. Whilst his pride is in control it becomes easy for him to cheat on and lie to anyone who he does not care for, especially those who he assesses as being less important or inferior to himself. As much as he is ready to ignore the truth and deceive others for his own gain, so he becomes equally ready to ignore the truth and deceive himself into thinking how good and right he is. The half-truths and lies of others are then easily welcomed by him as absolute truth whenever they feed and reinforce his feeling of superiority and pleasure. For as much as his self first desires become his needs, so also does his cravings for more leave him more vulnerable and subject to the temptations and corruption of those most crafty and evil. Their lies become more easily accepted by him as truth and therefore become more easily woven into his memory as truth.


From such lie infested memories are man's decisions and judgements too often formed. Whatever is being reasoned and perceived as truth and reality to all who have been corrupted by pride then is all too often an illusion. This state of mind is to some degree the inherited scourge of us all, breeding contempt and hatred for the truth along with paranoia, conflict, killing and destruction, just as the history of man will clearly testify.”

Aye, I can...
But not in here.
Create a new thread in the appropriate area of this forum and send me a PM with a link to it.
This is the "Introductions" area. It's dedicated at introductions and the rules make our replying to such themes somewhat restricted.

But I can give you a hint of why I interpreted that as a good description of religion.
The prideful man with the answers to some of the ultimate mysteries of mankind, gathers others who accept those answers...
How did you put it?
"Whilst his pride is in control it becomes easy for him to cheat on and lie to anyone who he does not care for, especially those who he assesses as being less important or inferior to himself."


And then, both this person and those others proceed to, as you put it "As much as he is ready to ignore the truth and deceive others for his own gain, so he becomes equally ready to ignore the truth and deceive himself into thinking how good and right he is. "

And some positive reinforcement (common in all religions):
"The half-truths and lies of others are then easily welcomed by him as absolute truth whenever they feed and reinforce his feeling of superiority and pleasure."

And the final self-delusion:
" Their lies become more easily accepted by him as truth and therefore become more easily woven into his memory as truth. "

And of course religion is a great part of the "history of man".

The same techniques can be found operating in other groups, like sports fans, politicians, or tv series fans.... fans... from fanatics.