Ok I admit it

[Bad Wolf]

Well then you'll choose not to go to heaven

No, you are wrong there. We don't choose not to go to heaven. We don't choose to go to hell.
Imagine this scenario:
Dave is an honest shop keeper, but every month, the head of the Armenian mafia (Vinny) sends two of his boys round to collect protection money. Vinny has told Dave that if he doesn't pay, his boys will break Dave's legs.
Now answer me this JL: If Dave refuses to pay protection money, is he then choosing to get his legs broken?

[Esquilax]

Yes! And you get that personal relationship by accepting Jesus into your heart! My dad often marvels at how easy it is!

So heaven's not really about being good or moral in life at all, it's just about accepting the religion as true without question? I could be a murderer sitting pretty in heaven because of my personal relationship, while a good hearted atheist goes to hell simply because he doesn't?

Does that sound like a good god worthy of worship to you?

[Faith No More]

A metaphor my father likes to use:
God's grace and forgiveness are like if someone told you they had a new car in the driveway for you. If you just say you don't believe it's there and disregard it, it's your fault for not accepting the gift and trusting it's there, not the givers fault. It's the same with God. He gives the gift, but the person has to accept it and go see it for himself. I might have not said that perfectly, but my father often uses this one while he's preaching.

A more apt analogy would be someone telling me they had a new car in the driveway for me, and I look in the driveway and see nothing there. The person then tells me that I just have to have faith that it is there, so I go down the driveway and examine it. Sure enough, it's just as if the car is not there, and I can even walk where it's purportedly at. Then the person just tells me that I have to first believe the car is there before I can see it. I tell the person that I can't do that, because that is a faulty way to analyze reality that can lead me open to biases. I tell them that, no matter what, I can't force myself to believe in something that has no evidence. Then the person tells me that they really want me to have the car, but if I don't take it, they will torment me for eternity. Then I tell them to fuck off.

Your dad is filling your head with bullshit.

[Jacob(smooth)]

A metaphor my father likes to use:
God's grace and forgiveness are like if someone told you they had a new car in the driveway for you. If you just say you don't believe it's there and disregard it, it's your fault for not accepting the gift and trusting it's there, not the givers fault. It's the same with God. He gives the gift, but the person has to accept it and go see it for himself. I might have not said that perfectly, but my father often uses this one while he's preaching.

A more apt analogy would be someone telling me they had a new car in the driveway for me, and I look in the driveway and see nothing there. The person then tells me that I just have to have faith that it is there, so I go down the driveway and examine it. Sure enough, it's just as if the car is not there, and I can even walk where it's purportedly at. Then the person just tells me that I have to first believe the car is there before I can see it. I tell the person that I can't do that, because that is a faulty way to analyze reality that can lead me open to biases. I tell them that, no matter what, I can't force myself to believe in something that has no evidence. Then the person tells me that they really want me to have the car, but if I don't take it, they will torment me for eternity. Then I tell them to fuck off.

Your dad is filling your head with bullshit.

[ShaMan]

...a personal relationship with Jesus.
...Jesus to guide you...

"Jesus" is dead. He told Mary "Do not CLING to me" as he departed from her. Your worship of a dead man is forbidden in your tradition (Christianity). You might be referring to "Christ" or the indwelling [fill-in-the-blank], or whatever - but "Jesus" is dead.

[Tonus]

From a scientific and logical realm, Christianity seems to make no sense.
However what atheists neglect is the spiritual realm. There is so much visible power in the relationship believers have with God. It cannot be explained through reason, but only through a personal relationship with Jesus. Study the word without skepticism, ask Jesus to guide you, meditate on Gods's goodness, and ask about spiritual experience from those who have experienced it themselves.

This is a copout. If something doesn't make sense from a scientific or logical perspective, then you're not left with the spiritual. You're left with make-believe. In every other area of your life, you do not substitute "spiritual" when science and logic fail. Science and logic tell you that if you take a running jump off of a tall building, you will fall to your death. "Spirit" may tell you that you will suddenly fly, but I believe that the former will prevail every time. And so, I am betting, do you.

[The Valkyrie]

I don't get it. I use many arguments that seemed so profound when my parents used them on me. What am I doing wrong? Guys just think. Look how vast and detailed our universe is. Look at the beauty, look at the wonder. Listen to the roar of the thunder, gaze at the majesty of the mountain ranges. How could it not have some creator, I understand maybe not the Christian God, but surely someone played a hand in it? If the universe just happened randomly, it's appearence would be spuratic, not rhyme or reason for anything. But despite our universe's flaws, it's clearly something awe-inspiring for the human mind to comprehend.

THat's called an argument from incredulity. "I don't understand how so, therefore . . . God!"

Doesn't work.

"I don't know." Is a perfectly acceptable answer. The great thing about science is that this answer becomes, "We don't know YET!"

[Simon Moon]

I don't get it. I use many arguments that seemed so profound when my parents used them on me. What am I doing wrong?

Your arguments are only profound to a believer. To those of us that require evidence and reasoned argument, your arguments fail on every level.

What are you doing wrong? You're not providing us with evidence.

What would it take for you to believe in the existence of some other god?

[Clueless Morgan]

I don't get it. I use many arguments that seemed so profound when my parents used them on me. What am I doing wrong?

You're blindly accepting what an authority is telling you without doing your own research and you're trying to make the same appeal to authority with people who have done the research and don't accept your authority (your father/parents).

A metaphor my father likes to use:
God's grace and forgiveness are like if someone told you they had a new car in the driveway for you. If you just say you don't believe it's there and disregard it, it's your fault for not accepting the gift and trusting it's there, not the givers fault. It's the same with God. He gives the gift, but the person has to accept it and go see it for himself. I might have not said that perfectly, but my father often uses this one while he's preaching.

Only a fool would accept the gift of a car without first checking to see if the car exists just as only a fool would accept a gift from a god before the gift, and the god, were demonstrated to exist.

For example, you receive a phone call from an accountant telling you that a long lost relative whom you've never met, nor heard of, but who happened to be rich, has gifted you their entire fortune (let's say it's multiple tens of millions of dollars) upon their death - and they just died. It's an amazing gift to receive, one that you're eager to get your hands on because you just declared bankruptcy. Should you or should you not accept this gift simply on the say so of the accountant? If you do no investigation of the accountant, the story, or the long lost relative how do you know you're not being conned?

Let's say the accountant is not some random person calling from out of the blue, but your accountant whom you've known for years and who helped you through the bankruptcy you just went through. It's a person you trust. This accountant tells you that this long lost relative has personally called him with the news of your impending financial windfall, that this relative of yours is on her deathbed and has, in fact, died since the accountant talked to her, and that she has personally chosen you as her sole inheritor. Would you really not look into this claim? Would you not be at least a little suspicious? Would you not go do any research to see if you really are related to this rich, dead relative just to make sure you're not being scammed?

That's the difference between you and the people in this forum, and that's why you're not persuading anyone.

You aren't doing the research. They are.

You aren't testing the credibility of the claim. They are.

You're only hearing the ca-ching of the dollar amount. They're hearing the subtle toll of the con artist.

[Minimalist]

A metaphor my father likes to use:
God's grace and forgiveness are like if someone told you they had a new car in the driveway for you. If you just say you don't believe it's there and disregard it, it's your fault for not accepting the gift and trusting it's there

My complaint with twits like you is that you'll say 'thanks for the car' and then go sit on your ass in the driveway insisting there is a car around you.