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RE: Ok I admit it
March 3, 2014 at 5:18 pm
(March 3, 2014 at 5:15 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote: (March 3, 2014 at 5:08 pm)JesusLover1 Wrote: He still gave us the choice. He just knows in advance that some will choose hell.
Stop using that word 'choose' as I have already explained, there is no choice involved at all. If a mugger came up to you and pointed a gun flush against your head and demanded you give him all your money. When you comply, does that mean you are choosing to give him your money? Of course not, you have no choice, he will shoot and kill you if you don't and then take the money anyway.
But God's gift is not taking our money. He gives us eternal life, eternal glory. If people choose not to accept it, it's there own problem. You can choose the being of all good, God, or the being of all evil, Satan. The choice is up to the person. But God has no gun to your head, and his gift is wonderful.
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RE: Ok I admit it
March 3, 2014 at 5:19 pm
(March 3, 2014 at 5:08 pm)JesusLover1 Wrote: (March 3, 2014 at 5:06 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote: God isn't breaking anyone's legs. He's doing something a billion times worse. Infinite unbearable torture! How is that justified? How can you worship a god that would do that to anyone?
He knew exactly what he was doing. He knew exactly what would happen. He knows everything. He's omniscient isn't he? The blame is still on him.
He still gave us the choice. He just knows in advance that some will choose hell. Be more precise in your writing.
Does knowing in advance that some will choose hell mean God knows that 18.79% of the population will choose hell? (Like Mr. Spock's estimates of probability in Star Trek)
Or does it mean that he knows in advance some persons will choose hell, say, xpastor and Minimalist and Esquilax?
If the latter, you're into predestination, and it means there was no free will at all. God created them to be damned.
In any case, who ever said, "Gee, I'd like to burn in hell for all eternity"?
Nope, they just said, "I don't see any evidence of God, I don't see any evidence of heaven, I don't see ay evidence of hell. I guess I'll just get on with my life."
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people — House
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RE: Ok I admit it
March 3, 2014 at 5:19 pm
(March 3, 2014 at 4:59 pm)JesusLover1 Wrote: As my mom says, at some point everyone has an oppurtunity to get saved.
JL1, when are you going to stop parroting your parents' beliefs and stand on your own two feet?
Or has the mafia swung by your house and cut them off?
Teenaged X-Files obsession + Bermuda Triangle episode + Self-led school research project = Atheist.
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RE: Ok I admit it
March 3, 2014 at 5:21 pm
(March 3, 2014 at 4:59 pm)JesusLover1 Wrote: As my mom says, at some point everyone has an oppurtunity to get saved.
Your mom, who has probably never been to an undeveloped Muslim country, doesn't know what the fuck she is talking about.
Save a life. Adopt a greyhound.
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RE: Ok I admit it
March 3, 2014 at 5:21 pm
(March 3, 2014 at 5:18 pm)JesusLover1 Wrote: But God's gift is not taking our money. He gives us eternal life, eternal glory. If people choose not to accept it, it's there own problem. You can choose the being of all good, God, or the being of all evil, Satan. The choice is up to the person. But God has no gun to your head, and his gift is wonderful.
Stop taking everything so literally. The money is your belief, and the gun is the threat of hell.
Believe in me or go to hell for ever.
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Ok I admit it
March 3, 2014 at 5:22 pm
(March 3, 2014 at 5:08 pm)JesusLover1 Wrote: (March 3, 2014 at 5:08 pm)Tonus Wrote: But if man exercises that gift, he gets sent to hell. That's a really awful gift, don't you think? Man's choice. Errr... yeah. God gives man free will, which is the freedom to act of his own volition. Then he punishes him with the worst possible punishment if he exercises that free will. Either man has to 'choose' only the actions that god commands, or he is punished with a near-incalculable severity.
It turns out that free will isn't very free at all.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: Ok I admit it
March 3, 2014 at 5:24 pm
(This post was last modified: March 3, 2014 at 5:26 pm by JesusLover1.)
(March 3, 2014 at 5:19 pm)xpastor Wrote: (March 3, 2014 at 5:08 pm)JesusLover1 Wrote: He still gave us the choice. He just knows in advance that some will choose hell. Be more precise in your writing.
Does knowing in advance that some will choose hell mean God knows that 18.79% of the population will choose hell? (Like Mr. Spock's estimates of probability in Star Trek)
Or does it mean that he knows in advance some persons will choose hell, say, xpastor and Minimalist and Esquilax?
If the latter, you're into predestination, and it means there was no free will at all. God created them to be damned.
In any case, who ever said, "Gee, I'd like to burn in hell for all eternity"?
Nope, they just said, "I don't see any evidence of God, I don't see any evidence of heaven, I don't see ay evidence of hell. I guess I'll just get on with my life."
But he still let's them make the choice. He still let's them experience life, and it's their fault that when God laid the conditions out they choose hell.
And they choose hell by rejecting God. Seriously, when you're being judged by God and he says "All you had to do was believe", won't it be so painful to know how little it could have took. Please be saved before it's too late, I BEG of you!
(March 3, 2014 at 5:21 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote: (March 3, 2014 at 5:18 pm)JesusLover1 Wrote: But God's gift is not taking our money. He gives us eternal life, eternal glory. If people choose not to accept it, it's there own problem. You can choose the being of all good, God, or the being of all evil, Satan. The choice is up to the person. But God has no gun to your head, and his gift is wonderful.
Stop taking everything so literally. The money is your belief, and the gun is the threat of hell.
Believe in me or go to hell for ever.
Yes but God's glory is not comparable to having your money stolen. Theft is bad, a personal relationship with God is the greatest thing ever.
(March 3, 2014 at 5:22 pm)Tonus Wrote: (March 3, 2014 at 5:08 pm)JesusLover1 Wrote: Man's choice. Errr... yeah. God gives man free will, which is the freedom to act of his own volition. Then he punishes him with the worst possible punishment if he exercises that free will. Either man has to 'choose' only the actions that god commands, or he is punished with a near-incalculable severity.
It turns out that free will isn't very free at all.
God doesn't punish them. They choose to deny heaven, and the only other option is the devil's Hell.
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RE: Ok I admit it
March 3, 2014 at 5:26 pm
(March 3, 2014 at 5:24 pm)JesusLover1 Wrote: But he still let's them make the choice. He still let's them experience life, and it's their fault that when God laid the conditions out they choose hell.
And they choose hell by rejecting God. Seriously, when you're being judged by God and he says "All you had to do was believe", won't it be so painful to know how little it could have took. Please be saved before it's too late, I BEG of you!
And when Dave refuses to pay the protection money, Vinnies boys will break his legs, and then vinny will say: 'all you had to do was pay the money'
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Ok I admit it
March 3, 2014 at 5:27 pm
(March 3, 2014 at 5:26 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote: (March 3, 2014 at 5:24 pm)JesusLover1 Wrote: But he still let's them make the choice. He still let's them experience life, and it's their fault that when God laid the conditions out they choose hell.
And they choose hell by rejecting God. Seriously, when you're being judged by God and he says "All you had to do was believe", won't it be so painful to know how little it could have took. Please be saved before it's too late, I BEG of you!
And when Dave refuses to pay the protection money, Vinnies boys will break his legs, and then vinny will say: 'all you had to do was pay the money'
Him losing his money would be bad. Accepting Jesus into your heart is good.
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RE: Ok I admit it
March 3, 2014 at 5:29 pm
(March 3, 2014 at 5:18 pm)JesusLover1 Wrote: But God's gift is not taking our money. Except the 10% he demands.
(March 3, 2014 at 5:18 pm)JesusLover1 Wrote: He gives us eternal life, eternal glory. If people choose not to accept it, it's there own problem. You can choose the being of all good, God, or the being of all evil, Satan. The choice is up to the person. But God has no gun to your head, and his gift is wonderful. False dichotomy. I could, and have, chosen neither.
Do you understand metaphor, JL1? Because it seems as if you don't. No, god doesn't literally have a gun to anyone's head, but it's implied. Saying I am free to choose, but then saying that there are consequences if I choose the wrong thing is the height of stupidity. It is just like someone asking you a question with a gun to your head.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
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