To abort or not to abort

[The Valkyrie]

Heywood I recognize you as pure poppycock.
I am open to having these discussions with women. I don't care about how smart my argument sounds to you though. In the case of abortion I give a mans opinion very very little value.
It's so funny because I really really don't like abortion. If I ever had to have one for some reason I think I would be devastated, but like I told the OP the difference between you and I is that I am better at minding my own business. I don't like to stick my nose in another person's uterus.

I like to be very very simple when I think about morals. I like to go with my gut reactions. What feels right what feels wrong?
When I think about having an abortion it doesn't feel right for me, but when I think about butting my head into someone else's life and interrupting them in a very very personal decision and trying to tell them how to handle it when I have no place well that feels wrong.

bolded by me

I'm sorry Losty, the bolded part is just stupid. Its as stupid as man saying, he don't care about a woman's opinion in regards to how a man should treat his wife.

---

No, a person under anaesthesia, asleep, or unconscious is still a person. They were a person when they went under and they are a person when they wake up.

Well they are not persons while the are under general anesthesia but you do bring up something to think about.....they are clearly persons before they go under. We must consider does past personhood confer moral protection?

I believe the answer is no. If it were yes it would be morally wrong to pull the plug on a person who is "brain dead". Future personhood is what confers moral protection. It is why one can be charged with murder if one causes a woman to miscarry.

Okay, your definition of what makes a person is seriously skewed. A person asleep or unconscious is STILL a person. Whereas a person who is braindead is not since they have no potential to return to consciousness.

I really don't see how you can compare the two.

[Losty]

It's ok if you think I'm stupid heywood. It doesn't hurt my feelings.....

I didn't say you were stupid. I said what you said in that particular sentence was stupid. One stupid sentence does not make a stupid person.

I think your intelligence is average.

Lol thanks I guess. I don't think you're stupid either but I never miss the opportunity to post this

[The Valkyrie]

I didn't say you were stupid. I said what you said in that particular sentence was stupid. One stupid sentence does not make a stupid person.

I think your intelligence is average.

Lol thanks I guess. I don't think you're stupid either but I never miss the opportunity to post this

Awesome pics (which I removed for my response since I haven't figured out the whole "hide content" thing yet.

*embarrassed emoticon*

I would say, based on the quality of your posts, that your intelligence is WELL above average, Losty.

[Heywood]

Okay, your definition of what makes a person is seriously skewed. A person asleep or unconscious is STILL a person. Whereas a person who is braindead is not since they have no potential to return to consciousness.

I really don't see how you can compare the two.

Beccs, ask yourself what things a being must be capable of in order to qualify as a person. If you are honest, a human being under general anesthesia is not capable of those things. They were in the past....They will be(mostly likely) in the future.....but while under GA...they are not capable of those things.

Let me ask you this. Do you consider cryogenically frozen "people" persons? Would you change your mind if it was shown that in the future science would be capable of bringing these dead people back to life?

[Losty]

Lol thanks I guess. I don't think you're stupid either but I never miss the opportunity to post this

Awesome pics (which I removed for my response since I haven't figured out the whole "hide content" thing yet.

*embarrassed emoticon*

I would say, based on the quality of your posts, that your intelligence is WELL above average, Losty.

Awe thank you! I try to keep up but it's hard for me. I have been stuck in science and logic are evil land for a long long time and I got married when I was 17 so no college. But I am planning to get into school and smarten up this lovely brain of mine

[Heywood]

Awe thank you! I try to keep up but it's hard for me. I have been stuck in science and logic are evil land for a long long time and I got married when I was 17 so no college. But I am planning to get into school and smarten up this lovely brain of mine

Losty, you don't need to wait until you get in school to sharpen up your lovely mind. You have and have had all the resources you need to do that now.

I suggest you start here.

http://www.criticalthinkeracademy.com/

[Losty]

Awe thank you! I try to keep up but it's hard for me. I have been stuck in science and logic are evil land for a long long time and I got married when I was 17 so no college. But I am planning to get into school and smarten up this lovely brain of mine

Losty, you don't need to wait until you get in school to sharpen up your lovely mind. You have and have had all the resources you need to do that now.

I suggest you start here.

http://www.criticalthinkeracademy.com/

Thank you

I would fix that but I can't seem to find a hug smilie here so you're stuck with that. It isn't cute but I gets the point across anyways

[Jacob(smooth)]

Heywood, I'm interested in the idea that we grant personhood on the basis of potential. If you could expand...

Is a fertilised but unimplanted egg yet a person?

Oh and afraid I'm with the theist. Whilst I recognise that it's uniquely gender based issue I don't feel that one can exclude men from the debate.

[tor]

Anyway abort should be allowed but also avoided.
I watched vids and it's pretty fucking disgusting.

[Heywood]

Heywood, I'm interested in the idea that we grant personhood on the basis of potential. If you could expand...

Is a fertilised but unimplanted egg yet a person?

Oh and afraid I'm with the theist. Whilst I recognise that it's uniquely gender based issue I don't feel that one can exclude men from the debate.

Jacob, it is not that we grant personhood on the basis of potential. It is that we grant beings moral protection on the basis of future personhood. I think there is a subtle difference.

In my opinion a zygote is not a person. But remember it doesn't have to be a person to receive moral protection.