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RE: Tacitus
August 19, 2014 at 6:13 am
(August 19, 2014 at 5:51 am)revivin Wrote: (August 19, 2014 at 5:50 am)Esquilax Wrote: the gospels never indicate a name for their authorship
They don't have to. Church tradition says Matthew wrote Matthew.
Church tradition? So the church made a bunch of stuff up based on no evidence, and that's sufficient to believe it? They just... say so, based on nothing, and that's it?
Quote:There is no reason to suggest otherwise.
The fact that there's no evidence to suggest it in the first place is reason to suggest otherwise.
Quote:Why do you think Paul didn't write in 1 Cor. 15, Gal. 1 & 2 that he spent 15 days with Peter and spent time with James and John and shared the same eyewitness testimony of seeing Jesus resurrected?
Because I have no evidence that Jesus even existed beyond a series of claims made by biased parties with a vested interest in propagating the claim that he did.
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RE: Tacitus
August 19, 2014 at 6:20 am
(August 19, 2014 at 1:38 am)revivin Wrote: (4) His death ended the “superstition” for a short time, What sort of time frame is he referring to? Because if you believe the Bible, Jesus reappeared just three days later to the faithful. And not long after, 500 watched him ascend to heaven and then many of them were infused with holy spirit and began to speak in tongues. I get the impression that Tacitus is not referring to a three-day break. Wouldn't the return from the dead and the miracles that followed have revived the movement immediately and with an energy that surpassed that from before? Kind of strange that it would suddenly hit a lull after its adherents learned that not even death could stop them...
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
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RE: Tacitus
August 19, 2014 at 6:21 am
(August 19, 2014 at 5:45 am)revivin Wrote: Links are nice but you never gave a reason why you think Matthew didn't write Matthew.
My eyes being connected to my brain and reading comprehension leads me to the conclusion: Mark + Q = Matthew.
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RE: Tacitus
August 19, 2014 at 6:25 am
(August 19, 2014 at 4:04 am)revivin Wrote: As I read the NT I can't imagine better evidence than this, can you? I'm beginning to see the problem here.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: Tacitus
August 19, 2014 at 6:27 am
(August 19, 2014 at 6:25 am)Tonus Wrote: (August 19, 2014 at 4:04 am)revivin Wrote: As I read the NT I can't imagine better evidence than this, can you? I'm beginning to see the problem here.
Indeed. I thought his imagination was quite vivid!
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RE: Tacitus
August 19, 2014 at 6:29 am
I'm beginning to think we may not deserve your scholarship and erudition, revival. I know I did nothing to deserve the time I've wasted reading your repeated homilies and declarations. If you are really a POE, the likeness is striking.
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RE: Tacitus
August 19, 2014 at 6:45 am
(This post was last modified: August 19, 2014 at 6:46 am by jesus_wept.)
(August 19, 2014 at 3:08 am)revivin Wrote: And the reason why I believe they saw Jesus alive from the dead is because Paul wrote he spent 15 days with Peter, with John and James the brother of Jesus. They all had the same gospel message of resurrection and as eyewitnesses.
Or it could be that 15 days was long enough for them to get their stories straight...
Have you ever thought of a job in the police force? Detective skills like yours are hard to come by.
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RE: Tacitus
August 19, 2014 at 1:17 pm
(August 19, 2014 at 5:45 am)revivin Wrote: Links are nice but you never gave a reason why you think Matthew didn't write Matthew.
Like the other of the Canonical Gospels, the authorship of Matthew is unknown. This is agreed on by the majority of mainstream Biblical scholars, including the Christian ones.
The author is almost certainly a highly educated Jew.
What is taught in seminaries is not what is heard in the pews.
Quote:When I read the NT I trust with 100% certainty when Paul said he spent 15 days with Peter and they were both eyewitnesses.
They did not lie.
Yeah, and Muslims and Hindus are certain about what they read in their holy texts. What's your point?
Quote:So Jesus is God, a liar, or a lunatic. Since He is not a lunatic or a liar, He is God.
You missed at least one possibility, legend.
.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Tacitus
August 19, 2014 at 1:22 pm
(August 19, 2014 at 2:31 am)revivin Wrote: Paul said he spent 15 days with Peter, and spent time with John and James the brother of Jesus.
"Paul" is most likely a second century literary creation of Marcion.
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RE: Tacitus
August 19, 2014 at 1:29 pm
(August 19, 2014 at 2:57 am)ShaMan Wrote: (August 19, 2014 at 2:51 am)revivin Wrote: But they died as martyrs. Always for a good cause...
In case of that picture, a vastly better cause than Jesus, although still a shitty cause.
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