Objectifying women

[chatpilot]

I am against blaming the victim (in this case women) for the depraved mental status and acts of a rapist. I agree with the opening post on this forum that women should be allowed to wear whatever it is that they want without being concerned about being raped. I have been to strip joints plenty of times and I agree that it is an enjoyable experience as long as you keep your hands to yourself and enjoy the show, especially if you are in a serious relationship. Sometimes relationships get boring and a little fantasy does no harm as long as you keep your emotions in check.

Rapists to me are egotistical pricks who only think of themselves and their wants and desires, and then they carry those desires out on someone else who does not deserve to be victims of their crimes no matter how they dress or look. Your fashion style defines in many ways who you are and how you feel about yourself. A woman with a great body or not so great body in the opinion of others, and who takes good care of it and decides to flaunt it tells me that she is a woman that is very confident with her looks and herself. And she has every right to express that in whatever manner she seems fit within the confines of the laws in her society.

[tavarish]

Personally I can appreciate beauty and sexuality without feeling any desire to go abuse a person.

And that's exactly why you're not a rapist, like 99% of people in the world.

Blokes that go to strip clubs etc objectifying women are fostering this sickness.

1. How does going to strip clubs foster rape?
2. How are the men responsible for it, but somehow the women dancing on poles aren't? It's a two-way street.

It's all about skewing your nature so much you act on it un-naturally.

What's unnatural? Rape? It happens in the animal kingdom all the time, not to mention in many human societies. On average, men have a natural need to procreate, and some men are more aggressive and dominant - sometimes to the point where consent of the other person isn't a concern. Most of us don't exhibit this, but it's far from it to say that such an action is somehow unnatural.

I wouldn't have anything to do with the sex industry. I think the reasoning for it being healthy are perverse and should be recognised as such. Healthy sex is found in a functioning inclusive community.

Daily dose of irrelevant preaching? Is this the part where you say the best sex is married sex?

[fr0d0]

Personally I can appreciate beauty and sexuality without feeling any desire to go abuse a person.

And that's exactly why you're not a rapist, like 99% of people in the world.

We're all potential rapists.

Blokes that go to strip clubs etc objectifying women are fostering this sickness.

1. How does going to strip clubs foster rape?
2. How are the men responsible for it, but somehow the women dancing on poles aren't? It's a two-way street.

1. It's a position on the same scale. Of course as usual you draw illogical conclusions
2. I agree

It's all about skewing your nature so much you act on it un-naturally.

What's unnatural?

your nature isn't like an animals nature. Animals act on instinct. You're supposed to be intelligent.

I wouldn't have anything to do with the sex industry. I think the reasoning for it being healthy are perverse and should be recognised as such. Healthy sex is found in a functioning inclusive community.

Daily dose of irrelevant preaching? Is this the part where you say the best sex is married sex?

Nothing like tav.

[Edwardo Piet]

Humans are animals too fr0d0. I thought you weren't a creationist :S

EvF

[fr0d0]

Humans are animals or humans are exactly the same as every other animal Evie?

[Edwardo Piet]

But that's not what you said.

You said to Tavrish "your nature isn't like an animals nature.".

And since Tavrish is an animal, this makes your statement nonsense.

EvF

[Rhizomorph13]

No True animal would behave as Tavarish does...

[Violet]

We're all potential rapists.

We are not. Some of us couldn't possibly rape due to either disability, fear, or dislike of the idea. Not to suggest that many of us are not...

your nature isn't like an animals nature. Animals act on instinct. You're supposed to be intelligent.

That doesn't stop some urges from being either too powerful for a person or for a person to not care to avoid the urge. Also... we are just as much animals as any other animal.

No True animal would behave as Tavarish does...

NTS! Not that it is necessarily an incorrect argument Though the addition of the word 'true' is redundant, I find.

---

And you think raping someone is the same as impulse buying? When I impulse buy, I do it with the knowledge that there will be no repurcussions. Raping someone isn't without repurcussions. I've given you a workable scenario. You've said "is so".

I think it is often exactly like impulse buying. And there is often repercussions for impulse buying: money. Raping someone can be as "without repercussion as impulse buying.

Why did you say that?!? Sure, rape is something everyone is capable of. Rapists are not inhuman. I'm of the opinion that everyone has the capacity to be good, and that no one is unforgivable. Yeah you're misrepresenting me.

I said it because it seemed like it might be so from the tone coming from some people. You should, however, note: I did not say "fr0d0 thinks this"... but rather "some of my fellow forum goers appear to think this", and asked if I was misrepresenting anyone. I hope I was not... because that's a silly position.

Performing and using those services is a sickness. Both parties suffer. Assasins kill for money. That must be ok too. I want it ok... my snake brain is motivated to act naturally. My developed brain manouvers me towards personal and societal gain.

Assassination is okay, and is even good at times. I don't think you would be complaining too much if someone of "Hitler's caliber" were assassinated...

I don't see how using or performing such is a sickness... even if both parties do suffer. Of course your brain maneuvers you towards gains when it thinks it can.

Using your imagination can be perverse too. If you only steal a bag of sugar, you still stole.

My imagination perverse? How?

And stealing is necessarily bad, are you telling me?

---

It's only vile when a harmful desire is acted on. Everyone has some sort of harmful desires, such as many have wished they could murder someone who doesn't deserve it. Some people are unfortunate in that they get horny over things that would be very harmful if carried out, such as rape. In the case of rape, the harm of course, is that the other person hates that it's happening, it causes them long lasting emotional pain, and sometimes physical pain, as well as possible death from AIDS ('stay still a moment will you, I need both hands to properly put this condom on' - haha, yeah I know, I'm twisted to even think of that!). The AIDS factor makes it as bad as murder in my opinion.

How is that vile at all? Eating can harm you... but I'd hardly call it vile. Breathing can also harm you... but that too I would not declare vile.

I don't think it is so twisted... if I wanted to rape someone (and was a man) and did not want to give them my AIDS: I would sure as hell put a condom on

Who is to decide what someone deserves or does not?

I don't see them so much as unfortunate as having different tastes that others.

[Scented Nectar]

It's only vile when a harmful desire is acted on. Everyone has some sort of harmful desires, such as many have wished they could murder someone who doesn't deserve it. Some people are unfortunate in that they get horny over things that would be very harmful if carried out, such as rape. In the case of rape, the harm of course, is that the other person hates that it's happening, it causes them long lasting emotional pain, and sometimes physical pain, as well as possible death from AIDS ('stay still a moment will you, I need both hands to properly put this condom on' - haha, yeah I know, I'm twisted to even think of that!). The AIDS factor makes it as bad as murder in my opinion.

How is that vile at all? Eating can harm you... but I'd hardly call it vile. Breathing can also harm you... but that too I would not declare vile.

You are saying that eating and breathing, which does to oneself, is comparable to the great emotional/physical harm done to another person against their will? WTF? Are you a sociopath with no empathy? Tell me you are joking please.

I don't think it is so twisted... if I wanted to rape someone (and was a man) and did not want to give them my AIDS: I would sure as hell put a condom on

That's nice of you. It's a good thing that you can hold your victim down with one hand, while simultaneously using the other hand to both squeeze the tip of the condom (so no air bubble forms in the semen receptacle part) and roll it down your dick at the same time.

Who is to decide what someone deserves or does not?

People with empathy. They vote and stuff, then the world gets progressively more modern, secular, and happy.

I don't see them so much as unfortunate as having different tastes that others.

Different tastes which are nonharmful are very different from different tastes which are harmful. You seem to be missing the ability to recognize harm and why causing pain is a bad thing.

[Violet]

You are saying that eating and breathing, which does to oneself, is comparable to the great emotional/physical harm done to another person against their will? WTF? Are you a sociopath with no empathy? Tell me you are joking please.

Yes, it is quite comparable. Observe these things that can hurt you when you are eating:

You can choke and die from eating.
You can get morbidly fat from eating.
You can suffer malnutrition from eating.
You can eat Big Al's sandwich and be killed as a result of having done so.
You can bring diseases into your body from eating.
The 'consistency' of your shit is affected by what you eat (and some forms of what can happen to it might be declared 'vile' ).

Let us not also forget that you can feed someone else food and they might choke and die from it.
They can get morbidly fat from eating it.
They can become malnutrated from it.
You can feed them Big Al's sandwich and frame them leading Big Al to kill them.
You can give them diseases by feeding them.
You can affect the consistency of their shit.

And the breathing list is so huge one questions the need to bring up comparable examples v_v I think I could do more with drinking than eating too... but then... maybe not

I have no idea what a 'sociopath' (as you are using it) is... but I certainly have empathy. A great deal of it in fact. More than most people I should think, but I know only so many And yet, noting all of that: I am not joking when I suggest that things should not be considered "vile" solely because they can hurt you. In fact... I was rather under the impression that declaring something 'vile' was a way to suggest that it makes you "sick to your stomach", "disgusted", "queasy", etc. Now... sometimes people attribute 'vileness' to a person, so as to imply that the person (or the person's actions) "make them sick"

That's nice of you. It's a good thing that you can hold your victim down with one hand, while simultaneously using the other hand to both squeeze the tip of the condom (so no air bubble forms in the semen receptacle part) and roll it down your dick at the same time.

Indeed, isn't it? I'm so nice. But why would you need to hold down this victim with your hands at all? What do you think ropes, handcuffs, gags, and their ilk are for? Further... I do not think it is not so difficult to do as you seem to think it is. If you recall: they can usually knock us out, or otherwise overpower us. Of course... this all assumes they would have and use a condom in the first place.

Also, you might note that I said "if I wanted to rape someone (and was a man) and did not want to give them my AIDS: I would sure as hell put a condom on". Perhaps it would be more accurate still to state "and actively wished to avoid giving them AIDS".

Who is to decide what someone deserves or does not?

People with empathy. They vote and stuff, then the world gets progressively more modern, secular, and happy.

'People with empathy'...... who are they? Do not you know how selective empathy (the understanding of another and ability to "share" their emotions, pains, pleasures with them) is? A small group of buddies almost certainly has a great deal more empathy towards each other than they do for a larger society that they do not know so well. See: empathy is not a thing that a person has... it is the strength of the emotional bond a person has with a thing (usually living, though I suppose if an unliving thing has emotions, pains, and pleasures it might also count...)

You also seem to suggest that some group of individuals somehow decides what people deserve and do not... but no: they usually compromise with each other to find a 'decent moral fit' for the majority. It is only individuals who decide what is deserved and also not... and further: while they may share an ideal of what is deserved... all concepts remain firmly within an individual. We aren't a hive mind... at least not yet.

Different tastes which are nonharmful are very different from different tastes which are harmful. You seem to be missing the ability to recognize harm and why causing pain is a bad thing.

Are not. Observe:

Eating A.

Eating B.

A = Cherries.

B = Ground glass.

Both are eating. Granted: eating one is quite likely to harm you more than the other... but that is not to reflect the action itself.

You seem to be missing the fact that whilst tastes might be different: they are tastes nonetheless. Now... I might have a real taste for ice cream... but also be diabetic and not eat it for my health's sake. It is not having a taste for a thing that dictates wether the action is done: that would be your decision to eat it (or absence of a decision to not eat it).

See: I might have a real attraction to rape... but also not want to do so because of not wanting to hurt another person like that. There is this wonderful thing for me if I happen to have internet: rape porn! And I will never have to rape a single soul to get a taste of how it feels (assuming I am empathetic enough towards the rapist on screen )