A Misconception about Islam

[Khansins]

Many people especially in West believe that Islam strictly believes in killing of infidels who do not submit to Islam. Plus that terrorism is influenced by ' Islamic Jihad' and which encourages to eliminate infidels from the world.

Such concept is wrong in its entirety. Islam does NOT allow killing of non Muslims the way terrorists do. Let me explain.

The Quran turns our attention to the high value of human life, whether it is Muslim or Non-Muslim and makes it absolutely forbidden to take an innocent life unjustly. The gravity of such a crime is equated, in the Quran, with the killing of all humanity.

“On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.” ( 5:32 )

"Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for your faith, nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: For Allah loves those who are just" (60:8)

So terrorists and other such people are enemies not to others but to Muslims as well.

[Minimalist]

Yeah, yeah. Xtians have the same line of shit: "Love your enemies," "turn the other cheek," yada, yada, yada. Didn't stop the Inquisition, the Crusades or the Holocaust.

The problem with religion is not what they claim. It's what people do in their name.

[Khansins]

The problem with religion is not what they claim. It's what people do in their name.

Agreed !! People tend to use religion as a tool to justify their actions. Muslims do that very often. Terrorists do that too. Thats how they tarnish the image of peaceful Islam that once people used to conceive

[Mister Agenda]

Welcome Khansins, and I hope your view becomes ever more popular among your co-religionists.

[SteelCurtain]

My problem with Islam/the Quran is what it also teaches:
About Apostasy:

---

- "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."

...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.'

Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate.

---

About Women:

---

The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females (see also verse 4:176)

Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them.

[Muhammad] said, 'Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?' They replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her intelligence.'

---

Homosexuality:

---

We also (sent) Lut (Lot): He said to his people: "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? For ye practise your lusts on men in preference to women : ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds. And his people gave no answer but this: they said, "Drive them out of your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!" But we saved him and his family, except his wife: she was of those who legged behind. And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): Then see what was the end of those who indulged in sin and crime!

Whoever is found conducting himself in the manner of the people of Lot, kill the doer and the receiver.

"The Prophet cursed effeminate men (those men who are in the similitude (assume the manners of women) and those women who assume the manners of men, and he said, 'Turn them out of your houses .' The Prophet turned out such-and-such man, and 'Umar turned out such-and-such woman.

---

And then there's what it does say about Martyrdom:

---

Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.

And do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden, except by right"

Not to mention the verses promising dark eyed virgins (44:54, 52:20) and perpetual youths (young boys) (6:17, 52:24. 76:19) available for pleasure in the next life for those that do martyr themselves in Allah's name.

---

Now, I am aware that there are a vast number of moderate Muslims who cherrypick just like the vast number of Christians do. But it is okay to criticize the source of these ideas, and the people who do follow it word for word in the same sentence. Your holy book is full of this stuff, so it is hard to swallow the idea that this is a religion of peace. There are peaceful people who follow the religion, but it is far from a religion of peace.

[Ben Davis]

---

Many people especially in West believe that Islam strictly believes in killing of infidels who do not submit to Islam. Plus that terrorism is influenced by ' Islamic Jihad' and which encourages to eliminate infidels from the world.

Such concept is wrong in its entirety. Islam does NOT allow killing of non Muslims the way terrorists do. Let me explain.

The Quran turns our attention to the high value of human life, whether it is Muslim or Non-Muslim and makes it absolutely forbidden to take an innocent life unjustly. The gravity of such a crime is equated, in the Quran, with the killing of all humanity.

“On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.” ( 5:32 )

"Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for your faith, nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: For Allah loves those who are just" (60:8)

So terrorists and other such people are enemies not to others but to Muslims as well.

---

Yeah, what Min & SteelCurtain said. The problem is that the Qur'an has contradictory teachings: in one verse, it says 'Kill!' while in another it says 'Don't kill!'. All in all, there are more verses which have negative connotations (e.g. apartheid, reduced human rights, mandatory execution) towards non-muslims than have positive ones. So it's easy to understand why it's possible to criticise the Qur'an for influencing terrorist/extremist acts: the problem is both that the terrorist/extremists are crazy and that the Qur'an gives them an excuse in the form of a divine mandate to do harm to others.

[Chad32]

There are peaceful people who follow the religion, but it is far from a religion of peace.

Pretty much this for all three of the abrahamic religions. Even if you follow the lines about loving people, it clearly sets up an Us vs Them mentality. We are going to heaven. They are going to hell. We are the chosen people. They are not.

This does not promote peace. As for individuals, it's all about how you were raised. If your religious leaders promoted the happy love side, then you're likely to be moderate and get along with others. If your leaders focus on hellfire and brimstone, you're likely to be a fundie who pushes other people down and kills people who don't follow suit.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

2:191 ' And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. [/b]Such is the reward of disbelievers.[b] '

Suck it, Allah.

Boru

[abaris]

Why do we even discuss this? The quran is just as much of a super market as all the other holy books. If you're friendly, you can pick your cherries, if you're a bastard, the book provides the right quotes for you too. Right now, Islam has the most violent organised bastards. That may change with time, since judaism and christianity certainly have the same potential. They just lie dormant for the time being. Like a virus, waking up under the right conditions.

[Khansins]

There are peaceful people who follow the religion, but it is far from a religion of peace.Pretty much this for all three of the abrahamic religions. Even if you follow the lines about loving people, it clearly sets up an Us vs Them mentality. We are going to heaven. They are going to hell. We are the chosen people. They are not. This does not promote peace.

Nobody knows who will go to Hell or Heaven. Even the Muslims you see might not go to Heaven. Only Allah knows. So it might be possible that you might go to Heaven too. You just leave it onto Allah.

---

My problem with Islam/the Quran is what it also teaches:
About Apostasy:

---

- "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."

...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.'

Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate.

---

About Women:

---

The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females (see also verse 4:176)

Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them.

[Muhammad] said, 'Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?' They replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her intelligence.'

---

Homosexuality:

---

We also (sent) Lut (Lot): He said to his people: "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? For ye practise your lusts on men in preference to women : ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds. And his people gave no answer but this: they said, "Drive them out of your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!" But we saved him and his family, except his wife: she was of those who legged behind. And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): Then see what was the end of those who indulged in sin and crime!

Whoever is found conducting himself in the manner of the people of Lot, kill the doer and the receiver.

"The Prophet cursed effeminate men (those men who are in the similitude (assume the manners of women) and those women who assume the manners of men, and he said, 'Turn them out of your houses .' The Prophet turned out such-and-such man, and 'Umar turned out such-and-such woman.

---

And then there's what it does say about Martyrdom:

---

Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.

And do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden, except by right"

Not to mention the verses promising dark eyed virgins (44:54, 52:20) and perpetual youths (young boys) (6:17, 52:24. 76:19) available for pleasure in the next life for those that do martyr themselves in Allah's name.

---

Now, I am aware that there are a vast number of moderate Muslims who cherrypick just like the vast number of Christians do. But it is okay to criticize the source of these ideas, and the people who do follow it word for word in the same sentence. Your holy book is full of this stuff, so it is hard to swallow the idea that this is a religion of peace. There are peaceful people who follow the religion, but it is far from a religion of peace.

You wrongly interpret these verses. I can explain what exactly do these mean and under what conditions were they revealed.

I guess I should create a thread based on your questions where i will answer whatever doubts you have about Islam..