Okay, White 'Murrica....

[Davka]

Which means he was assuming you were bigoted because you were white plus supporting a perceived injustice.

No, he said nothing about a "perceived injustice".

Come on, you're smarter than this. The perceived injustice was that you let the other guy go first. Which he most definitely did reference.

Which you clearly know full well, because you yourself referenced it right after denying that it existed:

And I wonder what's more unjust, having to wait a couple of minutes to pump one's gas because another car was in front of yours, or having your character slurred because of your ethnicity?

Does it really matter?

All I'm pointing out here is that his assumption was not based only on the fact that you are white.

I don't think hate crime statistics tell us anything about how racist an area is. The highest percentage of White Supremacists is in Idaho, but they didn't even make the list.

And that's a fair point. But I think it's also fair to regard that information as one metric on the intensity of the bigotry at hand. And it certainly points out that bigotry is not a regional affair in America.

No, it certainly isn't. I have found, however, that people in the south (especially the deep South) are far more likely to voice racist opinions. maybe they're just more honest. Or maybe it's more socially-acceptable in the South.

That doesn't mean there aren't just as many racists elsewhere, it just means that Southern culture is more tolerant of racist speech.

People will judge you by your appearance. By choosing your appearance carefully, you can - to some extent - control how people judge you.

"Appearance" is more than clothing, too. House, car, neighborhood - they all factor in.

Well, judging someone as probably racist because he drives a pickup truck and wears cowboy boots doesn't seem to make much more sense than judging someone as probably criminal because he drives a dropped 67 Impala and cops a sag with his jeans, now does it?

It makes exactly the same amount of sense.

We are pattern-seeking animals by nature. And the way we choose to present ourselves in public says something about us. Looking like a typical Southern or Western bigot doesn't mean that's what you are, but it does mean that you identify with at least some characteristics of that group, and that you clearly don't mind being identified with them.

Looking like a "gangsta" doesn't mean you're a criminal, but it does mean that you identify with at least some characteristics of that group, and that you clearly don't mind being identified with them.

We can complain about stereotyping all we want, but that won't make it go away. So choose your stereotype carefully, because you will be judged by it.

[Thumpalumpacus]

No, he said nothing about a "perceived injustice".

Come on, you're smarter than this. The perceived injustice was that you let the other guy go first. Which he most definitely did reference.

And you're smarter than this. He said that I was acting unjustly because I was white, the same race as the other guy, when that in fact had nothing to do with my suggestion. The incident merely brought that attitude of his to the surface.

Which you clearly know full well, because you yourself referenced it right after denying that it existed:

And I wonder what's more unjust, having to wait a couple of minutes to pump one's gas because another car was in front of yours, or having your character slurred because of your ethnicity?

Does it really matter?

I am arguing the point on your terms, not accepting them as truth. It's a rhetorical device, not an admission of your veracity. In other words, if you think being forced to wait a few minutes to pump gas is unjust, then what do you think of the comparative injustice of having your character slurred based on irrelevant criteria? Which do you think cuts deeper? That's my point.

All I'm pointing out here is that his assumption was not based only on the fact that you are white.

And you'd be wrong. His assumption was based on my skin color. His anger was based on his being inconvenienced.

No, it certainly isn't.

Why not? Don't you think that someone so bigoted as to commit a crime shows a higher level of commitment to his own hatreds than someone who is simply an ignorant asshole but keeps it to himself?

I have found, however, that people in the south (especially the deep South) are far more likely to voice racist opinions. maybe they're just more honest. Or maybe it's more socially-acceptable in the South.

My own opinion, and it's only an opinion, is that it's considered more acceptable here, mainly because it's a less-cosmopolitan region of the country than either the Boston/New York/DC corridor (which still has a high amount of bigotry) or the West Coast.

That doesn't mean there aren't just as many racists elsewhere, it just means that Southern culture is more tolerant of racist speech.

Perhaps.

Well, judging someone as probably racist because he drives a pickup truck and wears cowboy boots doesn't seem to make much more sense than judging someone as probably criminal because he drives a dropped 67 Impala and cops a sag with his jeans, now does it?

It makes exactly the same amount of sense.

To wit, none.

So choose your stereotype carefully, because you will be judged by it.

Rather than choose stereotypes, I prefer to challenge them ... and recognize them in myself, so that I don't make ungenerous assumptions about strangers that aren't borne out by the facts.

[Davka]

Whatever. You're clearly more interested in being butthurt than in honest conversation. Have fun with that.

[Minimalist]

Let's try another case study in 'Murrican justice. Maybe that will help the point get across?

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/sarah...n-is-dead/

Sarah Culhane is white. Michael Brown is dead.

Everyone knows something about Mike Brown's murder....um, justifiable police execution for the sensitive souls who think cops are fucking perfect.

Let's see what our justice system does for a rich white girl who did not put her hands up in surrender.

Some witnesses report that the unarmed Brown has his hands up in surrender as officer Wilson shot him.

Less than one month later, 19-year-old Sarah Culhane of Princeton, New Jersey crashed her blue BMW into another car in Bensalem, Pa. When police attempted to pull her over she took off and police eventually abandoned following her in a high speed chase on the city streets. Culhane later hit another car with her BMW — injuring a woman — before fleeing once again only to hit a third car. Culhane then abandoned her car and fled on foot, before being arrested by police. As police took her into custody, the Amherst College student and field hockey athlete resisted arrest, kicking one police officer in the head before being subdued.

Ah...but they got her! And the result.

According to the Bucks County Courier-Times, the prosecutor overseeing the case of 19-year-old Sara Culhane — who crashed her BMW into three cars, injured a woman in the process, and assaulted a police officer while resisting arrest — is dropping most charges against the young woman. Culhane will see two felony charges of aggravated assault and attempting to elude police, along with misdemeanor resisting arrest and traffic violations dropped to to a single misdemeanor charge of a crime involving personal injury.

According to NJ. com, as a first time offender Culhane will be eligible for a first-time offender program in Pennsylvania, allowing her to avoid jail time, with the promise of a clean record after completing a rehabilitation program and public service.

Sarah Culhane is white.

Michael Brown is dead.

[Minimalist]

Ah...so now we have our answer about what happens when a black man shoots a cop in his house executing a no-knock warrant.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/this-...drug-raid/

Guy, an African-American man who is now 50, was the target of a no-knock drug raid on May 9, 2014. Narcotics officers, operating on a tip from an informant who claimed that Guy was selling bags of cocaine, carried out a SWAT raid on his home in Killeen, Texas at around 5:30 AM—and Guy grabbed his gun and opened fire. Charles Dinwiddie, one of the officers, was hit and died two days later. Guy was charged with capital murder, and prosecutors are seeking the death penalty despite his assertions that he thought he was acting in self-defense. Guy’s trial is scheduled for June of this year.

I detect a bit of a difference to the OP.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Whatever. You're clearly more interested in being butthurt than in honest conversation. Have fun with that.

No, I'm not butthurt. I'm not accepting your argumentation, based as it is on multiple assumptions which you're clearly unwilling to question, and ending with a "whatever". You haven't answered my questions, even as I've tried to answer yours. "Honest conversation", indeed!

Believe it or not, I don't give two shits what you, yourself, think of me. I was hoping for a good discussion -- clearly naive on my part. I'll know better with you, going forward.

[paulpablo]

Let's try another case study in 'Murrican justice. Maybe that will help the point get across?

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/sarah...n-is-dead/

Sarah Culhane is white. Michael Brown is dead.

Everyone knows something about Mike Brown's murder....um, justifiable police execution for the sensitive souls who think cops are fucking perfect.

Let's see what our justice system does for a rich white girl who did not put her hands up in surrender.

Some witnesses report that the unarmed Brown has his hands up in surrender as officer Wilson shot him.

Less than one month later, 19-year-old Sarah Culhane of Princeton, New Jersey crashed her blue BMW into another car in Bensalem, Pa. When police attempted to pull her over she took off and police eventually abandoned following her in a high speed chase on the city streets. Culhane later hit another car with her BMW — injuring a woman — before fleeing once again only to hit a third car. Culhane then abandoned her car and fled on foot, before being arrested by police. As police took her into custody, the Amherst College student and field hockey athlete resisted arrest, kicking one police officer in the head before being subdued.

Ah...but they got her! And the result.

According to the Bucks County Courier-Times, the prosecutor overseeing the case of 19-year-old Sara Culhane — who crashed her BMW into three cars, injured a woman in the process, and assaulted a police officer while resisting arrest — is dropping most charges against the young woman. Culhane will see two felony charges of aggravated assault and attempting to elude police, along with misdemeanor resisting arrest and traffic violations dropped to to a single misdemeanor charge of a crime involving personal injury.

According to NJ. com, as a first time offender Culhane will be eligible for a first-time offender program in Pennsylvania, allowing her to avoid jail time, with the promise of a clean record after completing a rehabilitation program and public service.

Sarah Culhane is white.

Michael Brown is dead.

This is propaganda. I'm not saying the police are never racist or perfect.

But it is propaganda to pick a random white person who happened to not get shot to death while going on a crime spree and comparing her to one black person who did.

I'm not saying the point of view (that there's racism in the police) the propaganda is trying to promote is definitely false, but there's lots of reasons why it's misleading, it's picked one stereotypical beautiful looking, probably rich white girl who's seemingly got away with committing a lot of crime.

There's more than one difference between the two people, apart from the race.

Micheal Brown looks pretty much the same weight as two Sarah Culhanes, and she looks about a foot smaller than Micheal Brown.

If I was an armed police officer and Sarah Culhane charged at me I'd never consider shooting her just for the fact in some of her pictures she looks about 15 years old, and would most likely be a laughable physical threat,
Micheal brown on the other hand, considering he was also with an accomplice aswell as having a much more intimidating size and weight would definitely be more likely to get shot.

It's an interesting topic, which I don't really know much about because I'm not from America. But it's only a reasonable discussion if all statistics and accounts are taken into consideration, just looking at one white girl who wasn't shot is ludicrous.

But just to add something, I wouldn't shed any tears if this girl was shot by the police during the chase either, this girl could have easily been responsible for the death of pedestrians and other road users, a bullet through her head wouldn't have been a loss to society I think. But that's probably another reason why she wasn't shot is that it was a high speed chase and the police don't shoot at speeding cars, and once she was apprehended there was probably multiple police already surrounding her, more than enough to overpower her, although it looks like they underestimated how frisky she was since she managed to kick on in the head during the struggle.

[Minimalist]

You missed the point, Paul. It is not just the cops. The whole system is rampant with racism.

Put it another way. Let's say Sarah Culhane was poor and black. Do you really think she would get the same deal from the D.A.?

Really?

[paulpablo]

You missed the point, Paul. It is not just the cops. The whole system is rampant with racism.

Put it another way. Let's say Sarah Culhane was poor and black. Do you really think she would get the same deal from the D.A.?

Really?

I don't know, but it would be besides the point since what I'm saying is that there are other variables than race to consider, so the fact she wasn't poor may also have had something to do with it.

I get the point of what the websites are saying, they're using the case of one small rich white girl with no previous criminal convictions and how she was dealt with for a driving offense and comparing it to how a big black man from a non wealthy background was dealt with after committing a violent crime on foot.

I was just making my own point that it is propaganda. They highlight and select one variable, which is the skin colour of Sarah and Micheal, even though there are many other variables, different sex, height, weight, wealth and just general situation in which they were arrested.

They could have used a much more blatant case of someone even whiter and richer than Sarah Culhane for example this...

http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/12/12/the-...-accident/

I tend to think traffic violations that result in deaths are ALWAYS dealt with too leniently, no matter what background the person comes from.

For example in England this black man caused the death of 2 people and got jailed for 16 months.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-man...r-21616296

It seems to happen quite a bit in the case of footballers in this country.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/coven...548840.stm

This white person was jailed for 6 years for doing the same thing and causing the death of 1 person.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_McCorm...conviction

Luke McCormick another white person was jailed for 7 years.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...ailed.html

This black female was jailed for 2 years.

These cases are from England so they don't reflect how the American system works, but they're all traffic offenses with what I would consider to be fairly low sentences for causing the death of someone by reckless behavior, it happened purely by accident that in these cases I found the black people seem to be given lower sentences but I assume that's due to different circumstances in how the crime took place and not because their skin is a different colour.

I'm not goin to pretend I know all about racism within the American justice system, I'm not even American and I've never been there, I was just saying it looks like propaganda to me if an article selects one case, with many variables, but decides on the specific headline of "BLACK man shot to death, WHITE girl still alive and charges dropped."