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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 20, 2015 at 5:06 pm
(June 20, 2015 at 4:59 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Quote:Because it is understood even by atheists that Christians are supposed to live by a higher standard. When they fail to do so, the hypocrisy is seen by all.
No, moron, we hold them to the -same- standards that we hold any human being. They fail at being human beings, plain and simple......it has nothing to do with them "sinning", a"calling", or any of the other fairy tale shit you believe in.
You, ever eager to excuse them, fail at this yourself, though, granted....not as fantastically. You're a second stringer in this arena, as you are in so many others.
Baloney.
If priests weren't in the business of pointing out right and wrong, no one would give a damn about their failings.
I don't see too many threads or posts about the moral failings of Hollywood types.
And why? Because no one EXPECTS decent behavior from them.
As for being a second stringer in so many areas...could you enumerate a few of those? I'm sure everyone would love to hear what you know about me.
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 20, 2015 at 5:07 pm
(This post was last modified: June 20, 2015 at 5:08 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(June 20, 2015 at 4:59 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Quote:Because it is understood even by atheists that Christians are supposed to live by a higher standard. When they fail to do so, the hypocrisy is seen by all.
No, moron, we hold them to the -same- standards that we hold any human being. They fail at being human beings, plain and simple......it has nothing to do with them "sinning", a"calling", or any of the other fairy tale shit you believe in.
You, ever eager to excuse them, fail at this yourself, though, granted....not as fantastically. You're a second stringer in this arena, as you are in so many others.
Not from what Ive seen here on this very thread. 
When we were discussing the sex abuse scandal many pages back, numerous members of this forum specifically said that it's worse when priests do it because they are "supposed to be men of god."
This was addressed by multiple atheists in this site on this very thread.
(June 20, 2015 at 4:59 pm)Won2blv Wrote: I didn't read all of the posts but I am assuming its been acknowledged that you're hot?
Thank you for the compliment.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 20, 2015 at 5:11 pm
(June 20, 2015 at 5:07 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (June 20, 2015 at 4:59 pm)Rhythm Wrote: No, moron, we hold them to the -same- standards that we hold any human being. They fail at being human beings, plain and simple......it has nothing to do with them "sinning", a"calling", or any of the other fairy tale shit you believe in.
You, ever eager to excuse them, fail at this yourself, though, granted....not as fantastically. You're a second stringer in this arena, as you are in so many others.
Not from what Ive seen here on this very thread.
When we were discussing the sex abuse scandal many pages back, numerous members of this forum specifically said that it's worse when priests do it because they are "supposed to be men of god."
This was addressed by multiple atheists in this site on this very thread.
Actually, no; what we've objected to is that priests themselves claim to have the ultimate moral authority. I would venture a guess that no atheists think that priests actually possess that.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 20, 2015 at 5:14 pm
Do catholics say that priests hold the ultimate moral authority? The elders in my religion are just looked at as men that we can trust to guide us in a spiritually mature way but that it would almost be comical to expect perfection out of them
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 20, 2015 at 5:14 pm
(June 20, 2015 at 5:11 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: (June 20, 2015 at 5:07 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Not from what Ive seen here on this very thread.
When we were discussing the sex abuse scandal many pages back, numerous members of this forum specifically said that it's worse when priests do it because they are "supposed to be men of god."
This was addressed by multiple atheists in this site on this very thread.
Actually, no; what we've objected to is that priests themselves claim to have the ultimate moral authority. I would venture a guess that no atheists think that priests actually possess that.
It was a little more than that with some people. I'm pretty sure "men of god" was used once or twice at least.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 20, 2015 at 5:15 pm
Yeah. You're going to have to give some examples.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 20, 2015 at 5:15 pm
(June 20, 2015 at 5:14 pm)Won2blv Wrote: Do catholics say that priests hold the ultimate moral authority? The elders in my religion are just looked at as men that we can trust to guide us in a spiritually mature way but that it would almost be comical to expect perfection out of them
No, we do not. Neither do priests believe that about themselves.
Your second sentence is right on about priests as well. Thank you.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 20, 2015 at 5:16 pm
(June 20, 2015 at 5:15 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (June 20, 2015 at 5:14 pm)Won2blv Wrote: Do catholics say that priests hold the ultimate moral authority? The elders in my religion are just looked at as men that we can trust to guide us in a spiritually mature way but that it would almost be comical to expect perfection out of them
No, we do not. Neither do priests believe that about themselves.
Your second sentence is right on about priests as well. Thank you.
Oh, please! Your mental gymnastics are death-defying.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 20, 2015 at 5:17 pm
(This post was last modified: June 20, 2015 at 5:18 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(June 20, 2015 at 5:15 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: Yeah. You're going to have to give some examples.
There are 114 pages lol. Yall are gonna have to either take my word, or assume I'm lying/delusional.
(June 20, 2015 at 5:16 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: (June 20, 2015 at 5:15 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: No, we do not. Neither do priests believe that about themselves.
Your second sentence is right on about priests as well. Thank you.
Oh, please! Your mental gymnastics are death-defying.
I'm not sure what you mean.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: What IS good, and how do we determine it?
June 20, 2015 at 5:29 pm
(This post was last modified: June 20, 2015 at 5:34 pm by abaris.)
(June 20, 2015 at 5:02 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: My point in all of this, from the biggining, was to address Cato's post with the response that animals are not to be held to the same moral standards as we are. If you agree with that, then we are in agreement. :-)
The same? They are different that's understood. The only point that's up for debate is human superiority. We invented moral standards and call them by that name. But other social species have rules in their communities too. Otherwise they couldn't live and act as a group and you could call them moral standards. Of course they are different from ours, but they also have different needs than we have.
Also, there's one thing I really don't understand. You're constantly talking about the times being different when the bible has been written and we shouldn't apply our standards to the people of old. Yes, we can agree on that, but for me it follows that moral standards are relative, since, well, societies and times keep changing. But you argue, correct me if I'm wrong, that morals are somehow eternal. That really seems contradictory.
(June 20, 2015 at 5:14 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: It was a little more than that with some people. I'm pretty sure "men of god" was used once or twice at least.
Probably because sarcasm isn't readable but only audible. "Men of god" meaning they're riding the high horse, trying to assume the moral authority and handing out marching orders on how to behave. If you're doing that kind of thing, you better have an impeccable record.
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