What Human Rights?

[Longhorn]

This doesn't make much sense, Vic. You're saying they all got AIDS because they're following Church teaching.

Please stop putting words in my mouth.

I'm saying the disease could spread more easily because of the rumor the catholics made up and spread around that condoms were lethal.

But Church teaching is that you shouldn't have sex at all except in a monogamous relationship with a life partner... it isn't that you should have sex with multiple people and just not wear a condom when you do it lol. 

Saving sex for monogamous life long relationships would, in fact, help bring down AIDS if it was actually followed. So it's not that AIDS spread because they were following Church teaching, it spread because they weren't.

Teaching abstinence does not work. Demonstrably.

http://www.siecus.org/index.cfm?fuseacti...ageID=1195
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3194801/
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/...h_38_72-81

The truth is that the church spread lies to keep people from using condoms, leading to the death of millions, never really apologized and never changed their policy, despite the apparent destructive results of their actions.

The point being, while defending the sanctity of life, they caused millions to die and barely expressed regrets. But condoms? God forbid. Despite them being demonstrably significantly more effective than any abstinence only program.

http://www.cdc.gov/condomeffectiveness/latex.html
http://www.who.int/hiv/topics/condoms/en/

But the church would rather keep Africa poor and diseased by forcing their agenda into the charity work and causing significant damage than keep it in their pants and actually help without shoving ineffective dogma down the people's throats, all the while claiming to defend the sanctity of life while bodies keep piling up. Frankly, I'm disgusted.

That's all I have to say.

[abaris]

This doesn't make much sense, Vic. You're saying they all got AIDS because they're following Church teaching. But Church teaching is that you shouldn't have sex at all except in a monogamous relationship with a life partner... it isn't that you should have sex with multiple people and just not wear a condom when you do it lol. 

Saving sex for monogamous life long relationships would, in fact, help bring down AIDS if it was actually followed. So it's not that AIDS continued to spread because they were following Church teaching, it continued to spread because they weren't.

There's church teachings, there's human nature and there's male pride. Especially in the more paternalistic societies.

If abstinence only doesn't work in a developed country like the US, why would you think, it works in other regions of the world. Regardless of anyone's moral standpoint, a comprehensive and responsible sex education (which abstinence only isn't) can ultimately save lives. And in it's absence, it can cost lives.

[Catholic_Lady]

This doesn't make much sense, Vic. You're saying they all got AIDS because they're following Church teaching. But Church teaching is that you shouldn't have sex at all except in a monogamous relationship with a life partner... it isn't that you should have sex with multiple people and just not wear a condom when you do it lol. 

Saving sex for monogamous life long relationships would, in fact, help bring down AIDS if it was actually followed. So it's not that AIDS continued to spread because they were following Church teaching, it continued to spread because they weren't.

There's church teachings, there's human nature and there's male pride. Especially in the more paternalistic societies.

If abstinence only doesn't work in a developed country like the US, why would you think, it works in other regions of the world. Regardless of anyone's moral standpoint, a comprehensive and responsible sex education (which abstinence only isn't) can ultimately safe lives. And in it's absence, it can cost lives.

That's fine Abaris, but the point I was making in regard to Vic's post is that those people in Africa weren't spreading aids due to actually following Church teaching.

[Longhorn]

There's church teachings, there's human nature and there's male pride. Especially in the more paternalistic societies.

If abstinence only doesn't work in a developed country like the US, why would you think, it works in other regions of the world. Regardless of anyone's moral standpoint, a comprehensive and responsible sex education (which abstinence only isn't) can ultimately safe lives. And in it's absence, it can cost lives.

That's fine Abaris, but the point I was making in regard to Vic's post is that those people in Africa weren't spreading aids due to actually following Church teaching.

Which is not what I said at all.

[Catholic_Lady]

Vic... I don't think the Church ever said that condoms kill people... :/

They may have said that condoms are not 100% at preventing AIDS and that abstinence is a safer option (which is true), but not that they are some sort of poison that will kill the person who wears it lol.

[Catholic_Lady]

That's fine Abaris, but the point I was making in regard to Vic's post is that those people in Africa weren't spreading aids due to actually following Church teaching.

Which is not what I said at all.

my apologies, i misunderstood.

[Longhorn]

No, they just spread lies about them.

The Catholic Church is telling people in countries stricken by Aids not to use condoms because they have tiny holes in them through which HIV can pass - potentially exposing thousands of people to risk.
The church is making the claims across four continents despite a widespread scientific consensus that condoms are impermeable to HIV.

The WHO has condemned the Vatican's views, saying: "These incorrect statements about condoms and HIV are dangerous when we are facing a global pandemic which has already killed more than 20 million people, and currently affects at least 42 million."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/oct/09/aids

Knowingly.

[Catholic_Lady]

No, they just spread lies about them.

The Catholic Church is telling people in countries stricken by Aids not to use condoms because they have tiny holes in them through which HIV can pass - potentially exposing thousands of people to risk.
The church is making the claims across four continents despite a widespread scientific consensus that condoms are impermeable to HIV.

The WHO has condemned the Vatican's views, saying: "These incorrect statements about condoms and HIV are dangerous when we are facing a global pandemic which has already killed more than 20 million people, and currently affects at least 42 million."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/oct/09/aids

Knowingly.

Ah I see. If this article is accurate and these people really were knowingly and consciously spreading lies about condoms, then I agree they acted very very wrongly. The issue should be addressed if it hasn't been done so already, and the people responsible should be reprimanded.    

Nonetheless, to say "Catholics are not pro life" is a rash generalization on an entire group of people based on the actions of a minority.

[Spooky]

Rights are an abstract.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

No, they just spread lies about them.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/oct/09/aids

Knowingly.

Ah I see. If this article is accurate and these people really were knowingly and consciously spreading lies about condoms, then I agree they acted very very wrongly. The issue should be addressed if it hasn't been done so already, and the people responsible should be reprimanded.    

Nonetheless, to say "Catholics are not pro life" is a rash generalization on an entire group of people based on the actions of a minority.

There was another article in the Guardian on September 11, 2010 about this topic.  
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree...nti-condom

The Pope told the dummies not to use condoms because he wants them to get AIDS.  And the dummies think that that's just the best idea they ever heard.