RE: Shit. What The Hell. Jesus Never Existed
August 2, 2015 at 12:50 am
(This post was last modified: August 2, 2015 at 12:52 am by Aractus.)
I can't believe you idiots keep rattling on about such a fringe theory. Almost no serious scholar (historian), no matter how sceptical, believes that Jesus of Nazareth never existed. Jesus was, as everyone has said already, quite an ordinary common name. If you were going to invent a Messiah why give him such a common name? There have been some (a very tiny number) historians claiming for over 300 years now that crucifixion was never an execution method used by the Roman empire. You can find historians that claim the most ludicrous and ridiculous things. My favourite is when there was a consensus of opinion among Egyptologists that the pyramids were built by slaves - and that was based on just one piece of writing that dated to c. 450 BC written by Herodotus, a Greek, in GREEK!!
But oh please tell me that "we can't trust a single word of the Bible because ..." That's not how history works. Herodotus was a serious historian. Josephus was a serious historian. They both got some things right, and some things wrong. Any piece of ancient text needs to be approached with a healthy level of scepticism of course - because it's very unlikely everything contained within it is entirely accurate, especially for longer works, and especially works that talk about historical events. Hell even just 20 years after the death of Ned Kelly some historians got some of their facts wrong.
And I'll go one better. Hitchcock, Bernstein, and Bernstein directed a film called "German Concentration Camps Factual Survey" which I had the pleasure of seeing earlier this year. They went and saw first-hand what was going on in German concentration camps in 1945 at the time they were liberated by the Allied forces. They saw the camps first-hand and filmed there. They visited Dachau concentration camp and identified on film an extermination gas chamber where a lot of people were killed. Problem is that the gas chamber at Dachau had never been used. They went there first-hand and got it wrong; and they got a number of other facts wrong as well.
And if that's not enough, I'll go one better still. On 11/09/2001 reports said that the pentagon was hit by a second explosion (bomb/impact). Yet we now know it wasn't. They got their facts wrong on the very day it happened!
So all these arguments that get thrown about are completely frivolous. Some people claim the New Testament writings are written too long after the events to be accurate - yet we know for a fact that many of the NT books (around half in fact) were certainly written before the end of the first century. And if they were actual contemporary events then the criticism would be "oh well it was written too soon and so gave rise to confusion about what really happened just like how they thought Dachau had an operational gas chamber". The fact is it makes no difference to authenticity and accuracy whether the books were written in 30AD, in 50AD, in 70AD, or in 90AD. In 90AD they would still have an expected accuracy at least equal to 40AD.
"Jesus" is not a 16th century invented name - the letter "J" wasn't so much "added" to the English language as it was delineated from I. Originally there was delineation between I and J; I could represent a vowel or a consonant.
If you want to align yourself with crackpot idiots like Kenneth Humphreys - have at it. It just makes you guys look stupid, because you don't know what you're talking about, you can't defend the positions you hold when challenged with evidence, and you don't even understand the level of evidence or content or the composition of the texts which lead the vast majority of even critically-minded scholars to conclude that Jesus was a historical person. For example the fact that Paul - who wrote a number of letters - knew the family of Jesus personally.
But oh please tell me that "we can't trust a single word of the Bible because ..." That's not how history works. Herodotus was a serious historian. Josephus was a serious historian. They both got some things right, and some things wrong. Any piece of ancient text needs to be approached with a healthy level of scepticism of course - because it's very unlikely everything contained within it is entirely accurate, especially for longer works, and especially works that talk about historical events. Hell even just 20 years after the death of Ned Kelly some historians got some of their facts wrong.
And I'll go one better. Hitchcock, Bernstein, and Bernstein directed a film called "German Concentration Camps Factual Survey" which I had the pleasure of seeing earlier this year. They went and saw first-hand what was going on in German concentration camps in 1945 at the time they were liberated by the Allied forces. They saw the camps first-hand and filmed there. They visited Dachau concentration camp and identified on film an extermination gas chamber where a lot of people were killed. Problem is that the gas chamber at Dachau had never been used. They went there first-hand and got it wrong; and they got a number of other facts wrong as well.
And if that's not enough, I'll go one better still. On 11/09/2001 reports said that the pentagon was hit by a second explosion (bomb/impact). Yet we now know it wasn't. They got their facts wrong on the very day it happened!
So all these arguments that get thrown about are completely frivolous. Some people claim the New Testament writings are written too long after the events to be accurate - yet we know for a fact that many of the NT books (around half in fact) were certainly written before the end of the first century. And if they were actual contemporary events then the criticism would be "oh well it was written too soon and so gave rise to confusion about what really happened just like how they thought Dachau had an operational gas chamber". The fact is it makes no difference to authenticity and accuracy whether the books were written in 30AD, in 50AD, in 70AD, or in 90AD. In 90AD they would still have an expected accuracy at least equal to 40AD.
"Jesus" is not a 16th century invented name - the letter "J" wasn't so much "added" to the English language as it was delineated from I. Originally there was delineation between I and J; I could represent a vowel or a consonant.
If you want to align yourself with crackpot idiots like Kenneth Humphreys - have at it. It just makes you guys look stupid, because you don't know what you're talking about, you can't defend the positions you hold when challenged with evidence, and you don't even understand the level of evidence or content or the composition of the texts which lead the vast majority of even critically-minded scholars to conclude that Jesus was a historical person. For example the fact that Paul - who wrote a number of letters - knew the family of Jesus personally.
For Religion & Health see:[/b][/size] Williams & Sternthal. (2007). Spirituality, religion and health: Evidence and research directions. Med. J. Aust., 186(10), S47-S50. -LINK
The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea. -LINK
"That's disgusting. There were clean athletes out there that have had their whole careers ruined by people like Lance Armstrong who just bended thoughts to fit their circumstances. He didn't look up cheating because he wanted to stop, he wanted to justify what he was doing and to keep that continuing on." - Nicole Cooke
The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea. -LINK
"That's disgusting. There were clean athletes out there that have had their whole careers ruined by people like Lance Armstrong who just bended thoughts to fit their circumstances. He didn't look up cheating because he wanted to stop, he wanted to justify what he was doing and to keep that continuing on." - Nicole Cooke