(July 30, 2015 at 5:50 am)Kitan Wrote: Harris, you mother fucking dumbass, what is known as the natural world is completely different than comprehending what is the natural world.
Your fiction may dictate that the answer should be known automatically, but reality shows that finding the answer is the most rewarding experience of all.
Your understanding develops by observations and learnings therefore, your comprehension is contingent upon the orderly structure and on how nature functions. In fact, nature influences and fashions your comprehension. This comprehension then you apply to get even better understanding of nature and by that, you enhance your lifestyle.
“It is Allah Who hath created the heavens and the earth and sendeth down rain from the skies, and with it bringeth out fruits wherewith to feed you; it is He Who hath made the ships subject to you, that they may sail through the sea by His command; and the rivers (also) hath He made subject to you.”
Ibrahim (14)
-Verse 32-
(July 30, 2015 at 5:50 am)Kitan Wrote: Religion has provided zero answers in relation to reality and the natural world, yet science has provided many.
Neither science has done something wrong to Religion nor has the Religion done something wrong to Science. All the trouble is coming from people who are doing wrong to both the science and the religion under the influence of their hunger for more comfort, pleasure, and joy.
(July 30, 2015 at 6:37 am)paulpablo Wrote: It doesn't say he was hurt or felt pain it just says he died, and no piece of wood is mentioned. So you still haven't proven that ancient people knew being hit in the groin with a piece of wood hurts.
Are you a student of first grade to whom I should explain 2+2=4 by putting two pairs of apples together?
(July 30, 2015 at 6:40 am)paulpablo Wrote: I'm saying ancient people knew scabs caused numbness because 1) They experienced scabs. 2) Numbness is a lack of sensation, it's not a discovery.
The quran gives no knowledge of numbness, of sensation or of anything. It just describes a punishment of repeated skin burning.
Tell me, is synaesthesia a sensation, a discovery, or both.
Why people repeat certain things in some part or throughout their lives?
(July 30, 2015 at 6:45 am)paulpablo Wrote: Well can you explain what the miracle of the verse is again? The only thing I can see the Quran saying right now is that it hurts if you have magic skin and it's continually burned.
You are repeating the same question and forcing me to repeat the same answer.
If some man had written Quran then by nature he was supposed to reflect the influential ideas and concepts of his time in his writings. In seventh century, people thought that pain is affiliated to heart and soul (not even to brain) but by going against those ideas, Quran has put emphasis over skin to show that skin is linked with the burning sensation instead of heart.
For example, today, everyone think that feelings and emotions are the product of brain. However, if I say that brain is not producing feelings and emotions then it is a gigantic contradiction because I am going against the idea of the whole world.
I can go against the world in two cases
a. When I am under pressure or facing some psychological problems or
b. I have a firm proof about some reality, which is hidden from the people in general.
However, if a and b are not valid cases and yet the revealed information is true then that information, without any doubt, is from the source higher than the brainpower of all humans living at the time of revelation.
Thus, the information that skin sense the fire and heart has nothing to do with it makes Quran miraculous.
(July 30, 2015 at 7:26 am)paulpablo Wrote: You do need a huge list of references if you're trying to prove that the entire population of the world knew nothing of something that would have been easily discovered in ancient times.
All it would have taken for someone to discover that fire can cause numbness is for a burns victim to say to someone "I feel nothing here" Or words to that effect.
I don't know how much medical experience the philosophers you mentioned have, I doubt if you have even studied everything that they knew about pain and numbness I have a feeling you're just using Wikipedia quotes and you know just about as much as I do about plato.
Additionally there could have been alternative theories around the time of these philosophers about pain, numbness and so on.
If several historians came to me and said no one in ancient times knew anything about burns or numbness I'd look into the claim of a miracle further, but I'm not just going to take your word for it after seeing a few Wikipedia quotes, and I don't have time to research into every different ancient philosopher and medical person on their knowledge of burns victims, skin, pain or numbness.
If you are not an adamant person and interested in learning about the reality then I recommend you to discuss this topic with your history professors.
Secondly, my arguments and justifications are not based upon Wikipedia. I do take advantage of the information that Wikipedia provides free of cost (thank you, Jimmy Wales and Larry Sanger) to polish my ideas but my main ideas generally stimulated first by the verses of Quran and then by the work of other philosophers and eminent scientists.
As you have noticed that I quote Wikipedia quite extensively, that is because most of you guys have decent confidence in Wikipedia.
(July 30, 2015 at 10:10 am)bennyboy Wrote:(July 30, 2015 at 8:55 am)Neimenovic Wrote: But the facts it gives are debatable and only appear to refer to natural phenomena if you interpret them correctly, whereas the germ theory would have been a much stronger evidence for the quran's divinity. And something 7th century Arabs could've used.
Yeah, what kind of a dick God would prove the Quran is a miracle by talking about a nifty-looking light/dark-blue division in the oceans around rivers (the halocline), but wouldn't bother to teach his people how to keep newborn babies from dying of disease.
In your understanding, is there anything more powerful than the mention of Expanding Universe in seventh century?
Quran does not teach how to make your life comfortable by means of physical stuff but give guidance on how to make your life better by being a moral and cooperative person.
“Nor can goodness and Evil be equal. Repel (Evil) with what is better: Then will he between whom and thee was hatred become as it were thy friend and intimate!
And no one will be granted such goodness except those who exercise patience and self-restraint,- none but persons of the greatest good fortune.”
Fush Shilat (41)
-Verse 34 – 35-
