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Why am I me?
#32
RE: Why am I me?
Yahadreas Wrote:I'm sure you can understand the logical difference between "the Bible is the word of God because the Bible says so" and "bachelors are unmarried men". The former uses circular reasoning; the latter is a tautology. They are not the same types of argument. The claim "I am me" is a tautology, like the second proposition, not circular reasoning, like the first.
I admit, I used to see them as different arguments (circular reasoning and tautology). Now I see them as the same thing written two different ways. OH! By 'tautology', i've been referring to the logical definition (a statement that is true by necessity of its logical form), not the colloquial lack of style (saying the same thing twice). While the 'type' of argument does change (you are right about that), the intent of the argument is almost always the same, even if unintentional.

Logic is a process that takes statements to be true (if-), and then works things out from point of a particular statement being true. Ie: If all dogs are mountains, and all mountains are blue, then all dogs are blue.

If we fail to precede such statements with 'if', we are stating that a thing is true. Ie: All Dogs are mountains. All mountains are blue. Therefore all dogs are blue.

One can even turn it into a circular set, though this particular one feels choppy saying it like this. Ie: All dogs are mountains. "why?" Because all mountains are blue. "Why are all mountains blue?" All dogs are blue. "Why are all dogs blue?"-repeat-

It is a self-supported circle of logic. Each of the fields, though untrue, support each other when reasoning for them is inquired. No progress is ever made for the person with the belief, little thinking is required for any argument that supports itself. To the person who believes the argument, it must be true, and often not a word will be considered against it.

Take tautologies now... a statement is taken as true (ie: I am me) because a thing is said that must be true. Then when asked why it must be true, the statement is repeated, often written differently. When asked why this time, it returns to the first answer. Observe, if you would, the many ways this can be abused, and why I think so little of such arguments:

"Why is the sky blue?" Because it is. "Why is it?" Because it is not not blue. "Why is it not not blue?" Because it is. "Why is it?" "Because it is not not blue".

Never, in any of that... just as with circular reasoning... do we come to find out any reason being the the thing suggested (in this case, the sky being blue). Why not go to the field of science, and pull human eyesight and how light reflects off of Earth's atmosphere? Why not suggest instead that it is not always blue, as can perhaps be witnessed at other times? Nothing is challenged... nothing is solved... nothing is gained by either party. Now let's compare these both:

All dogs are mountains. "why are all dogs mountains?" Because all mountains are blue. "Why are all mountains blue?" All dogs are blue. "Why are all dogs blue?"-repeat-
"Why is the sky blue?" Because it is. "Why is it?" Because it is not not blue. "Why is it not not blue?" Because it is. "Why is it?" "Because it is not not blue".-repeat-

Now a real example of the two in practice:

The Bible is the word of God. "Why do you think it is the word of God?" Because the Bible tells us so. "But why do you believe what the Bible says?" The Bible is infallible. "Why do you say that?" -repeat-
"Why am I me?" Because you are not not you. "Why am I not not me?" Because you are you. "But why am I me?" Because you are not not you.

^-- these two arguments... they are the same thing, written with a differing number of clauses. One is a circle that just keeps coming around to itself. The other is a circle that hits three things before it gets back to itself.

I therefore argue, that tautology is another word for circular reasoning. Tiny Tiger

And further that neither of them are to the gain to anyone understanding the world.
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
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Messages In This Thread
Why am I me? - by R-e-n-n-a-t - October 12, 2010 at 5:58 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Anomalocaris - October 12, 2010 at 6:15 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Ace Otana - October 12, 2010 at 6:22 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Anomalocaris - October 12, 2010 at 7:14 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by R-e-n-n-a-t - October 13, 2010 at 8:03 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by TheDarkestOfAngels - October 13, 2010 at 8:34 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Loki_999 - October 14, 2010 at 1:41 am
RE: Why am I me? - by marksesl - October 15, 2012 at 3:40 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Existentialist - October 12, 2010 at 7:32 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by ib.me.ub - October 13, 2010 at 3:04 am
RE: Why am I me? - by TheDarkestOfAngels - October 13, 2010 at 4:57 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Loki_999 - October 13, 2010 at 5:35 am
RE: Why am I me? - by The Omnissiunt One - October 13, 2010 at 7:26 am
RE: Why am I me? - by ib.me.ub - October 14, 2010 at 6:23 am
RE: Why am I me? - by ChromodynamicGirl - October 16, 2010 at 6:24 am
RE: Why am I me? - by solja247 - October 21, 2010 at 6:14 am
RE: Why am I me? - by R-e-n-n-a-t - October 27, 2010 at 3:27 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by jason56 - October 27, 2010 at 7:38 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - October 27, 2010 at 7:41 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by R-e-n-n-a-t - October 28, 2010 at 3:05 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - October 29, 2010 at 3:29 am
RE: Why am I me? - by deanalouise - December 15, 2016 at 2:45 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Edwardo Piet - October 29, 2010 at 4:58 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - October 29, 2010 at 5:01 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Edwardo Piet - October 29, 2010 at 5:06 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - October 29, 2010 at 5:15 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Edwardo Piet - October 29, 2010 at 5:34 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - October 29, 2010 at 5:54 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Edwardo Piet - October 29, 2010 at 7:47 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - October 30, 2010 at 3:45 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Edwardo Piet - October 31, 2010 at 7:42 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Yahadreas - October 29, 2010 at 10:31 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Edwardo Piet - October 29, 2010 at 11:06 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Yahadreas - October 30, 2010 at 6:41 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - October 30, 2010 at 7:38 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Yahadreas - October 30, 2010 at 1:57 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by The Omnissiunt One - October 30, 2010 at 2:59 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - October 30, 2010 at 6:47 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Yahadreas - October 31, 2010 at 6:58 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - November 3, 2010 at 12:44 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Dooga33 - September 1, 2011 at 9:27 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by R-e-n-n-a-t - September 3, 2011 at 4:01 am
RE: Why am I me? - by KichigaiNeko - September 3, 2011 at 7:06 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Dooga33 - September 3, 2011 at 11:01 am
RE: Why am I me? - by The Grand Nudger - September 3, 2011 at 11:05 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Dooga33 - September 3, 2011 at 11:26 am
RE: Why am I me? - by R-e-n-n-a-t - September 3, 2011 at 11:24 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - September 4, 2011 at 10:34 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Dooga33 - September 4, 2011 at 10:40 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Rohobian - September 10, 2011 at 12:06 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by The Magic Pudding - September 10, 2011 at 1:59 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by R-e-n-n-a-t - September 15, 2011 at 6:28 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - September 16, 2011 at 10:08 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by The Magic Pudding - September 17, 2011 at 11:06 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by IATIA - September 17, 2011 at 11:47 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - September 18, 2011 at 6:32 am
RE: Why am I me? - by IATIA - September 18, 2011 at 10:59 am
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - September 18, 2011 at 7:20 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by IATIA - September 18, 2011 at 11:42 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Epimethean - September 18, 2011 at 7:31 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - September 18, 2011 at 11:20 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Epimethean - September 18, 2011 at 11:44 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by KichigaiNeko - September 19, 2011 at 10:24 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - September 19, 2011 at 6:18 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Epimethean - September 19, 2011 at 10:08 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by toro - October 26, 2011 at 1:04 am
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - October 26, 2011 at 8:05 am
RE: Why am I me? - by The Grand Nudger - October 26, 2011 at 2:18 am
RE: Why am I me? - by frankiej - October 26, 2011 at 8:13 am
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - October 26, 2011 at 8:40 am
RE: Why am I me? - by KichigaiNeko - October 26, 2011 at 8:46 am
RE: Why am I me? - by frankiej - October 26, 2011 at 8:48 am
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - October 26, 2011 at 9:16 am
RE: Why am I me? - by KichigaiNeko - October 26, 2011 at 9:23 am
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - October 26, 2011 at 10:28 am
RE: Why am I me? - by KichigaiNeko - October 26, 2011 at 10:42 am
RE: Why am I me? - by frankiej - October 26, 2011 at 8:43 am
RE: Why am I me? - by The Grand Nudger - October 26, 2011 at 10:39 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - October 26, 2011 at 11:57 am
RE: Why am I me? - by The Grand Nudger - October 26, 2011 at 10:44 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - October 26, 2011 at 12:02 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by The Grand Nudger - October 26, 2011 at 11:59 am
RE: Why am I me? - by R-e-n-n-a-t - October 26, 2011 at 10:40 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by toro - October 26, 2011 at 10:54 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - October 27, 2011 at 8:57 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by R-e-n-n-a-t - October 27, 2011 at 5:46 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by toro - October 30, 2011 at 1:43 am
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - October 30, 2011 at 6:08 am
RE: Why am I me? - by toro - October 31, 2011 at 10:55 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Phaedra - October 31, 2011 at 11:33 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by lucent - November 1, 2011 at 1:33 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Welsh cake - November 1, 2011 at 12:32 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by toro - November 2, 2011 at 1:17 am
RE: Why am I me? - by IATIA - November 6, 2011 at 5:11 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Godschild - November 3, 2011 at 4:33 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by R-e-n-n-a-t - November 7, 2011 at 11:07 am
RE: Why am I me? - by frankiej - November 3, 2011 at 4:34 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by 5thHorseman - November 3, 2011 at 4:38 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by frankiej - November 3, 2011 at 4:39 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by The Grand Nudger - November 3, 2011 at 4:56 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Godschild - November 4, 2011 at 1:15 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Norfolk And Chance - November 12, 2011 at 8:16 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by IATIA - November 13, 2011 at 7:58 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Norfolk And Chance - November 13, 2011 at 8:11 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by IATIA - November 13, 2011 at 8:21 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Norfolk And Chance - November 13, 2011 at 8:25 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by toro - November 13, 2011 at 10:00 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by IATIA - November 13, 2011 at 8:45 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Norfolk And Chance - November 13, 2011 at 10:29 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by The Grand Nudger - November 14, 2011 at 9:18 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Epimethean - November 14, 2011 at 9:35 am
RE: Why am I me? - by The Grand Nudger - November 14, 2011 at 9:45 am
RE: Why am I me? - by ib.me.ub - November 14, 2011 at 9:59 am
RE: Why am I me? - by dogma - February 14, 2012 at 4:40 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - February 14, 2012 at 12:03 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by dogma - February 14, 2012 at 11:38 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by KichigaiNeko - February 14, 2012 at 4:56 am
RE: Why am I me? - by jason56 - February 14, 2012 at 8:35 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - February 15, 2012 at 12:09 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by dogma - February 15, 2012 at 2:52 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Perhaps - February 15, 2012 at 12:38 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by The Grand Nudger - February 15, 2012 at 3:33 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by dogma - February 15, 2012 at 5:37 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - February 15, 2012 at 4:38 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by philosiver - July 12, 2012 at 6:50 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Violet - July 12, 2012 at 9:41 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Reforged - July 12, 2012 at 10:22 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by jonb - July 13, 2012 at 5:39 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Colanth - July 16, 2012 at 10:59 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by liam - July 17, 2012 at 5:49 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Comprehender - October 15, 2012 at 8:11 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - October 15, 2012 at 9:34 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Comprehender - October 16, 2012 at 10:18 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Whateverist - October 16, 2012 at 11:09 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - October 16, 2012 at 10:40 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Comprehender - October 20, 2012 at 11:18 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - October 21, 2012 at 11:34 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - October 16, 2012 at 1:08 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Whateverist - October 16, 2012 at 2:07 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Darkstar - October 21, 2012 at 1:33 am
RE: Why am I me? - by The Grand Nudger - October 21, 2012 at 11:35 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - October 21, 2012 at 12:31 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Tempus - October 23, 2012 at 1:33 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Edwardo Piet - October 24, 2012 at 9:50 am
RE: Why am I me? - by YASHA - October 26, 2012 at 11:39 am
RE: Why am I me? - by blackjack1221 - March 6, 2013 at 8:00 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Rhizomorph13 - March 6, 2013 at 8:24 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Darkstar - March 6, 2013 at 9:01 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Jackalope - March 6, 2013 at 10:13 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Darkstar - March 6, 2013 at 10:55 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Something completely different - March 6, 2013 at 9:13 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by FragileTag - March 23, 2013 at 1:25 am
RE: Why am I me? - by KichigaiNeko - March 23, 2013 at 10:30 am
RE: Why am I me? - by FirstmadeLast - April 24, 2015 at 8:40 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Mudhammam - April 25, 2015 at 5:09 am
RE: Why am I me? - by account_inactive - December 15, 2016 at 2:49 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by FatAndFaithless - December 15, 2016 at 2:50 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by vorlon13 - December 15, 2016 at 3:06 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by abaris - December 15, 2016 at 3:24 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by vorlon13 - December 15, 2016 at 3:26 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Cato - December 15, 2016 at 10:50 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by LadyForCamus - December 15, 2016 at 11:20 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by Chas - December 17, 2016 at 12:49 pm
RE: Why am I me? - by LadyForCamus - December 16, 2016 at 8:08 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Whateverist - December 16, 2016 at 8:45 am
RE: Why am I me? - by AceBoogie - December 17, 2016 at 6:26 am
RE: Why am I me? - by bennyboy - December 17, 2016 at 6:45 am
RE: Why am I me? - by Edwardo Piet - December 17, 2016 at 6:52 am



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