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HELL
RE: HELL
(August 31, 2015 at 8:35 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: That second one is the big question. There is a theory I've heard, and that is that God keeps Himself hidden from us in this life because otherwise many people would blame Him for anything that went wrong, and always ask Him for things.

People already "always ask [God] for things" though.  That's what intercessory prayer is: petitioning God to intercede on their, or another's, behalf.

And God (every god, not just the Christian one) is/are already blamed for lots of things.

Thus, to avoid being blamed for things and avoid being asked for things cannot be an explanation for divine hiddenness because those thing are already demonstrably happening with your god.

Quote:I'm just trying to imagine... if God was someone we could see and talk with every day, and we developed a personal relationship with Him in that way like we would with a friend, considering who He is (all powerful and all that), we'd probably demand a lot from Him.

I don't accept the idea that if we developed the kind of relationship with a god we had with our friends that we would then start making demands of that god.  Most people who maintain friendships with people who are, let's say, socioeconomically better off than themselves don't go around demanding that that friend pay their bills for them.  There are some people who do take advantage of other people in that way, yes.  Granted.  But most don't.

Quote:We'd probably get down right pissed off at Him every time something very unfortunate happened in our lives. He'd be the scapegoat, and he'd be hated. We'd hate Him. Hating God is not good for our own well being, so it is for our own sake that He does not present Himself openly in our everyday lives.

But if we had the kind of relationship you imagine or hope that we might have with a God who makes itself known to us (a friendship), then that god could explain its rationale for its actions to us when we question it - and if that god is omnipotent then it could explain its rationale to us in such a way that we would understand why the thing that happened had to happen.  Although, if you want to get really picky, if this god really is omnipotent, then it could make all things happen without also requiring that those things be accompanied by pain, destruction and death, and if this god really is a benevolent god it would make sure that pain, destruction and death are avoided because intentionally making someone suffer is not a benevolent act.  And if this god is omniscient, then it would know the outcome of all actions it could/would take and whether anyone would suffer and thus avoid those actions that lead to suffering.  Classic Problem of Evil stuff.

It seems to me that if you make the reasonable assumptions that someone who calls themselves your friend would (1) make themselves known to you (otherwise, how could you have a friendship with them?  I mean, other than a completely delusional one that exists only in the mind of one party in the relationship) and (2) that this friend would explain themselves to you if you questioned their actions or motives, and the, to me, seriously overreaching assumption that (3) some god or other exists, then, again, to me, the most reasonable conclusion to draw from the facts that (1) this god doesn't make itself known to us, and (2) this god doesn't deem it necessary to explain itself when questioned by a "friend", is that this god doesn't want a friendship with humanity in the way you, CL, seem to want from it.
Teenaged X-Files obsession + Bermuda Triangle episode + Self-led school research project = Atheist.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
HELL - by Catholic_Lady - August 31, 2015 at 7:16 pm
RE: HELL - by IATIA - August 31, 2015 at 7:20 pm
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - August 31, 2015 at 7:25 pm
RE: HELL - by IATIA - August 31, 2015 at 7:44 pm
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - August 31, 2015 at 7:51 pm
RE: HELL - by IATIA - August 31, 2015 at 8:01 pm
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - August 31, 2015 at 8:13 pm
RE: HELL - by IATIA - September 2, 2015 at 6:34 pm
RE: HELL - by Ravenshire - August 31, 2015 at 10:38 pm
RE: HELL - by Ravenshire - August 31, 2015 at 10:34 pm
RE: HELL - by MTL - September 1, 2015 at 3:21 am
RE: HELL - by Minimalist - August 31, 2015 at 7:24 pm
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - August 31, 2015 at 7:30 pm
RE: HELL - by IATIA - September 2, 2015 at 1:32 am
RE: HELL - by Cyberman - August 31, 2015 at 7:28 pm
HELL - by KUSA - August 31, 2015 at 7:31 pm
RE: HELL - by Tartarus Sauce - September 8, 2015 at 7:31 pm
RE: HELL - by abaris - August 31, 2015 at 7:42 pm
RE: HELL - by Clueless Morgan - August 31, 2015 at 7:43 pm
RE: HELL - by abaris - August 31, 2015 at 7:46 pm
RE: HELL - by Clueless Morgan - August 31, 2015 at 7:52 pm
RE: HELL - by IATIA - September 2, 2015 at 6:28 pm
RE: HELL - by Longhorn - September 3, 2015 at 11:28 am
RE: HELL - by Longhorn - September 3, 2015 at 11:32 am
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - August 31, 2015 at 8:35 pm
RE: HELL - by abaris - August 31, 2015 at 8:43 pm
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - August 31, 2015 at 8:56 pm
RE: HELL - by Lemonvariable72 - September 2, 2015 at 6:22 pm
RE: HELL - by Clueless Morgan - September 1, 2015 at 11:07 am
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - September 1, 2015 at 11:12 am
RE: HELL - by Ravenshire - September 1, 2015 at 11:04 pm
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - September 1, 2015 at 11:17 am
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - September 1, 2015 at 11:25 am
RE: HELL - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - August 31, 2015 at 7:45 pm
RE: HELL - by IATIA - August 31, 2015 at 7:51 pm
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - August 31, 2015 at 8:01 pm
RE: HELL - by abaris - August 31, 2015 at 8:25 pm
RE: HELL - by Thumpalumpacus - August 31, 2015 at 8:34 pm
RE: HELL - by Thumpalumpacus - August 31, 2015 at 8:37 pm
RE: HELL - by Ravenshire - August 31, 2015 at 10:41 pm
RE: HELL - by pocaracas - September 1, 2015 at 5:24 am
RE: HELL - by Minimalist - August 31, 2015 at 7:49 pm
RE: HELL - by IATIA - August 31, 2015 at 7:54 pm
RE: HELL - by Cyberman - August 31, 2015 at 7:51 pm
HELL - by KUSA - August 31, 2015 at 8:24 pm
RE: HELL - by Thumpalumpacus - August 31, 2015 at 8:32 pm
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - August 31, 2015 at 8:43 pm
RE: HELL - by Thumpalumpacus - August 31, 2015 at 9:01 pm
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - August 31, 2015 at 9:40 pm
RE: HELL - by abaris - August 31, 2015 at 9:43 pm
RE: HELL - by Godschild - August 31, 2015 at 10:16 pm
RE: HELL - by Thumpalumpacus - August 31, 2015 at 9:47 pm
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - August 31, 2015 at 9:49 pm
RE: HELL - by abaris - August 31, 2015 at 9:51 pm
RE: HELL - by Thumpalumpacus - September 1, 2015 at 9:38 am
RE: HELL - by Neo-Scholastic - August 31, 2015 at 8:39 pm
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - August 31, 2015 at 8:44 pm
RE: HELL - by Thumpalumpacus - August 31, 2015 at 8:56 pm
RE: HELL - by Homeless Nutter - August 31, 2015 at 8:40 pm
RE: HELL - by rexbeccarox - August 31, 2015 at 8:42 pm
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - August 31, 2015 at 8:43 pm
RE: HELL - by rexbeccarox - August 31, 2015 at 8:44 pm
RE: HELL - by Iroscato - August 31, 2015 at 8:57 pm
RE: HELL - by Salacious B. Crumb - August 31, 2015 at 9:27 pm
RE: HELL - by Godschild - August 31, 2015 at 10:11 pm
RE: HELL - by Salacious B. Crumb - August 31, 2015 at 10:21 pm
RE: HELL - by The Valkyrie - August 31, 2015 at 10:29 pm
RE: HELL - by Neo-Scholastic - August 31, 2015 at 10:42 pm
RE: HELL - by The Valkyrie - August 31, 2015 at 10:45 pm
RE: HELL - by Godschild - August 31, 2015 at 11:13 pm
RE: HELL - by Godschild - August 31, 2015 at 11:10 pm
RE: HELL - by Salacious B. Crumb - September 1, 2015 at 12:14 pm
RE: HELL - by Godschild - September 1, 2015 at 1:47 pm
RE: HELL - by Salacious B. Crumb - September 1, 2015 at 1:58 pm
RE: HELL - by Godschild - September 1, 2015 at 2:05 pm
RE: HELL - by Salacious B. Crumb - September 1, 2015 at 2:28 pm
RE: HELL - by Godschild - August 31, 2015 at 11:02 pm
RE: HELL - by Ravenshire - August 31, 2015 at 11:16 pm
RE: HELL - by The Valkyrie - August 31, 2015 at 11:19 pm
RE: HELL - by Godschild - September 1, 2015 at 12:23 pm
RE: HELL - by Salacious B. Crumb - September 1, 2015 at 12:31 pm
RE: HELL - by Godschild - September 1, 2015 at 9:42 pm
RE: HELL - by Salacious B. Crumb - September 1, 2015 at 10:31 pm
RE: HELL - by Godschild - September 2, 2015 at 2:36 pm
RE: HELL - by Whateverist - September 1, 2015 at 9:36 am
RE: HELL - by Godschild - September 1, 2015 at 12:15 pm
RE: HELL - by Cyberman - September 1, 2015 at 11:56 pm
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - September 1, 2015 at 12:07 am
RE: HELL - by KevinM1 - September 1, 2015 at 9:04 am
RE: HELL - by Salacious B. Crumb - August 31, 2015 at 9:49 pm
RE: HELL - by Minimalist - August 31, 2015 at 11:38 pm
RE: HELL - by Cecelia - August 31, 2015 at 11:48 pm
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - September 1, 2015 at 12:09 am
RE: HELL - by Whateverist - September 1, 2015 at 12:36 am
RE: HELL - by Thumpalumpacus - September 1, 2015 at 9:43 am
RE: HELL - by abaris - September 1, 2015 at 9:51 am
RE: HELL - by Thumpalumpacus - September 1, 2015 at 10:49 am
RE: HELL - by abaris - September 1, 2015 at 10:52 am
RE: HELL - by pocaracas - September 1, 2015 at 10:56 am
RE: HELL - by Iroscato - September 1, 2015 at 10:59 am
RE: HELL - by pocaracas - September 1, 2015 at 11:03 am
RE: HELL - by Iroscato - September 1, 2015 at 11:10 am
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - September 1, 2015 at 11:28 am
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - September 1, 2015 at 10:51 am
RE: HELL - by Thumpalumpacus - September 1, 2015 at 1:54 pm
RE: HELL - by Minimalist - September 1, 2015 at 11:12 am
RE: HELL - by Cecelia - September 1, 2015 at 12:24 am
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - September 1, 2015 at 12:48 am
RE: HELL - by Redbeard The Pink - September 1, 2015 at 1:34 am
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - September 1, 2015 at 1:42 am
RE: HELL - by Wyrd of Gawd - September 1, 2015 at 5:47 pm
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - September 1, 2015 at 5:55 pm
RE: HELL - by downbeatplumb - September 5, 2015 at 4:49 am
RE: HELL - by Cecelia - September 5, 2015 at 1:50 pm
RE: HELL - by Whateverist - September 6, 2015 at 2:26 am
RE: HELL - by downbeatplumb - September 6, 2015 at 7:17 am
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - September 6, 2015 at 5:58 pm
RE: HELL - by Tartarus Sauce - September 8, 2015 at 7:33 pm
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - September 8, 2015 at 8:27 pm
RE: HELL - by KevinM1 - September 22, 2015 at 1:16 am
RE: HELL - by Whateverist - September 22, 2015 at 2:16 am
RE: HELL - by Whateverist - September 1, 2015 at 12:35 am
RE: HELL - by Fake Messiah - September 1, 2015 at 1:56 am
RE: HELL - by Wyrd of Gawd - September 1, 2015 at 2:58 am
RE: HELL - by MTL - September 1, 2015 at 4:11 am
RE: HELL - by robvalue - September 1, 2015 at 4:12 am
RE: HELL - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 1, 2015 at 4:39 am
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - September 1, 2015 at 10:37 am
RE: HELL - by Homeless Nutter - September 1, 2015 at 10:45 am
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - September 1, 2015 at 11:01 am
RE: HELL - by Homeless Nutter - September 1, 2015 at 11:16 am
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - September 1, 2015 at 11:31 am
RE: HELL - by Homeless Nutter - September 1, 2015 at 11:41 am
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - September 1, 2015 at 12:11 pm
RE: HELL - by Homeless Nutter - September 1, 2015 at 12:28 pm
RE: HELL - by Ravenshire - September 1, 2015 at 11:10 pm
RE: HELL - by Cecelia - September 1, 2015 at 11:19 pm
RE: HELL - by Whateverist - September 6, 2015 at 2:23 am
RE: HELL - by Godschild - September 1, 2015 at 2:00 pm
RE: HELL - by Wyrd of Gawd - September 1, 2015 at 5:30 pm
RE: HELL - by robvalue - September 1, 2015 at 5:33 am
RE: HELL - by ignoramus - September 1, 2015 at 5:54 am
RE: HELL - by KevinM1 - September 1, 2015 at 7:41 am
RE: HELL - by Crossless1 - September 1, 2015 at 10:02 am
HELL - by KUSA - September 1, 2015 at 7:47 am
RE: HELL - by robvalue - September 1, 2015 at 9:13 am
RE: HELL - by Neo-Scholastic - September 1, 2015 at 9:32 am
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - September 1, 2015 at 10:42 am
RE: HELL - by Wyrd of Gawd - September 1, 2015 at 5:43 pm
RE: HELL - by robvalue - September 1, 2015 at 11:18 am
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - September 1, 2015 at 11:39 am
RE: HELL - by Clueless Morgan - September 1, 2015 at 12:39 pm
RE: HELL - by Divinity - September 1, 2015 at 11:22 am
RE: HELL - by pocaracas - September 1, 2015 at 11:41 am
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - September 1, 2015 at 12:23 pm
RE: HELL - by Iroscato - September 1, 2015 at 12:27 pm
RE: HELL - by Minimalist - September 1, 2015 at 12:39 pm
RE: HELL - by downbeatplumb - September 1, 2015 at 1:02 pm
RE: HELL - by drfuzzy - September 1, 2015 at 2:03 pm
RE: HELL - by robvalue - September 1, 2015 at 2:08 pm
RE: HELL - by Salacious B. Crumb - September 1, 2015 at 4:43 pm
RE: HELL - by Minimalist - September 1, 2015 at 4:58 pm
RE: HELL - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 1, 2015 at 5:44 pm
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - September 1, 2015 at 5:51 pm
RE: HELL - by abaris - September 1, 2015 at 5:55 pm
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - September 1, 2015 at 6:00 pm
RE: HELL - by abaris - September 1, 2015 at 6:16 pm
RE: HELL - by Cyberman - September 1, 2015 at 10:01 pm
RE: HELL - by rexbeccarox - September 1, 2015 at 10:03 pm
RE: HELL - by Godschild - September 2, 2015 at 12:13 pm
RE: HELL - by abaris - September 2, 2015 at 12:33 pm
RE: HELL - by Crossless1 - September 2, 2015 at 12:37 pm
RE: HELL - by Salacious B. Crumb - September 2, 2015 at 12:51 pm
RE: HELL - by rexbeccarox - September 2, 2015 at 2:16 pm
RE: HELL - by Minimalist - September 2, 2015 at 2:38 pm
RE: HELL - by Godschild - September 2, 2015 at 2:41 pm
RE: HELL - by rexbeccarox - September 2, 2015 at 2:49 pm
RE: HELL - by The Valkyrie - September 2, 2015 at 3:25 pm
RE: HELL - by Crossless1 - September 2, 2015 at 3:42 pm
RE: HELL - by Whateverist - September 6, 2015 at 2:21 am
RE: HELL - by Whateverist - September 6, 2015 at 2:17 am
RE: HELL - by Ravenshire - September 2, 2015 at 2:54 pm
RE: HELL - by Nay_Sayer - September 1, 2015 at 11:17 pm
RE: HELL - by robvalue - September 2, 2015 at 12:59 am
RE: HELL - by IATIA - September 2, 2015 at 1:21 am
RE: HELL - by robvalue - September 2, 2015 at 1:45 am
RE: HELL - by rexbeccarox - September 2, 2015 at 5:18 pm
RE: HELL - by abaris - September 2, 2015 at 5:37 pm
RE: HELL - by Ravenshire - September 2, 2015 at 6:29 pm
RE: HELL - by Crossless1 - September 3, 2015 at 9:49 am
RE: HELL - by abaris - September 3, 2015 at 10:09 am
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - September 2, 2015 at 5:42 pm
RE: HELL - by The Valkyrie - September 2, 2015 at 6:27 pm
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - September 2, 2015 at 7:15 pm
RE: HELL - by The Valkyrie - September 2, 2015 at 10:04 pm
RE: HELL - by LostLocke - September 3, 2015 at 10:23 am
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - September 3, 2015 at 11:28 am
RE: HELL - by Redbeard The Pink - September 2, 2015 at 9:55 pm
RE: HELL - by Whateverist - September 6, 2015 at 2:16 am
RE: HELL - by Cyberman - September 3, 2015 at 10:03 am
RE: HELL - by Longhorn - September 3, 2015 at 11:34 am
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - September 3, 2015 at 11:30 am
RE: HELL - by IATIA - September 3, 2015 at 4:32 pm
RE: HELL - by CapnAwesome - September 3, 2015 at 6:14 pm
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - September 3, 2015 at 6:19 pm
RE: HELL - by ignoramus - September 3, 2015 at 7:32 pm
RE: HELL - by CapnAwesome - September 3, 2015 at 10:16 pm
RE: HELL - by robvalue - September 4, 2015 at 2:20 am
RE: HELL - by MTL - September 4, 2015 at 7:30 pm
RE: HELL - by ignoramus - September 4, 2015 at 2:38 am
RE: HELL - by Longhorn - September 6, 2015 at 4:10 am
RE: HELL - by robvalue - September 4, 2015 at 3:32 am
RE: HELL - by robvalue - September 5, 2015 at 4:22 am
RE: HELL - by Grandizer - September 6, 2015 at 2:31 am
RE: HELL - by Whateverist - September 6, 2015 at 2:35 am
RE: HELL - by robvalue - September 6, 2015 at 2:53 am
RE: HELL - by Longhorn - September 6, 2015 at 3:49 am
RE: HELL - by Longhorn - September 6, 2015 at 4:06 am
RE: HELL - by Spooky - September 6, 2015 at 3:30 pm
RE: HELL - by pocaracas - September 6, 2015 at 6:02 pm
RE: HELL - by MysticKnight - September 7, 2015 at 10:17 pm
RE: HELL - by pocaracas - September 8, 2015 at 6:27 am
RE: HELL - by Ben Davis - September 8, 2015 at 7:18 am
RE: HELL - by robvalue - September 9, 2015 at 1:45 am
RE: HELL - by Orchids - September 20, 2015 at 12:22 pm
RE: HELL - by Minimalist - September 22, 2015 at 1:32 am
RE: HELL - by Catholic_Lady - September 22, 2015 at 1:34 am
RE: HELL - by Wyrd of Gawd - September 22, 2015 at 4:53 pm
RE: HELL - by Minimalist - September 22, 2015 at 2:02 am
RE: HELL - by The Grand Nudger - September 22, 2015 at 2:30 am
RE: HELL - by Reforged - September 22, 2015 at 4:26 am
RE: HELL - by Nay_Sayer - September 22, 2015 at 7:07 pm
RE: HELL - by houseofcantor - September 22, 2015 at 9:14 pm
RE: HELL - by Thumpalumpacus - September 22, 2015 at 10:31 pm
RE: HELL - by RobbyPants - October 7, 2015 at 2:26 pm
RE: HELL - by abaris - October 7, 2015 at 7:06 pm
RE: HELL - by Wyrd of Gawd - October 7, 2015 at 11:00 pm
RE: HELL - by Edwardo Piet - October 7, 2015 at 6:38 pm
RE: HELL - by Edwardo Piet - October 7, 2015 at 7:09 pm
RE: HELL - by dyresand - October 7, 2015 at 11:46 pm
RE: HELL - by Homeless Nutter - October 8, 2015 at 12:05 am
RE: HELL - by goodwithoutgod - October 9, 2015 at 9:20 pm
RE: HELL - by ignoramus - October 9, 2015 at 9:53 pm
RE: HELL - by robvalue - October 9, 2015 at 9:57 pm

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