(September 11, 2015 at 12:15 pm)Ace Wrote:![]()
I had to think about how to reply to this post because one I did not wish to write a term paper on the subject (which is enormous) and two, currently I do not have the drive to go back and forth over the issue because its a lot of history and I am just lazy.
Well that is your first fault in your assumed statement is bunching all of Christianity together. Seconded not acknowledge the separation of Catholics and Protestants religions. Once done the assumed idea of “war of oppression between religion and science” is a very false statement because it never occurred in the Catholic Church and in the early Protestant Churches of Lutheran and Anglican of the mid 1500 to 1600’s. It will surprise not only you but many that the Catholic Church was not only pioneer science in western civilization from 1100’s to today but were also the discovery/founders of many things that we still use today.
Now how to start this were it would address all possible questions that you may still have, yet that cannot be done, So back and forth we will have to go. What to put first? Do I give you the long list of Catholic Priest who were scientist and the first in discoveries in numerous scientific fields? Do I tell you all of the educational and social institutions and changes that the church had done that built Europe and the America’s in what it is today? (i.e. Universities, Hospitals, Calendar, Genetics, The Big Bang Theory, The Double Helix, Arabic Numbers, Fallopian Tube , Heliocentric Model, Modern Law, International Law/court, and so on)
Okay, we won't bunch all Christians together if you'll promise never to compare us to communist assholes.
We're well-aware that many Christians are scientists, today, and that they do cutting edge work in a lot of fields, as you mentioned. We have *zero issues* with those guys, other than disagreeing with their conclusions about supernatural concepts beyond the detection abilities of the sciences.
Yet you cannot deny that a huge percent of the Christian effort, especially in the United States (and this is relevant because the USA has historically been a great leader in science and industry, over the past century), has been to attack science, to spread misinformation about it, and to generally hamper the young minds who might discover that evolution is real and their churches are lying to us about how the world came to be. We know damned well that science and atheism have nothing to do with one another, other than the fact that atheists have no preset reason to take issue with or deny scientific findings.
As I often point out on here, I am an atheist and ex-biologist; my fiancee is a Christian (Methodist) and remains a geneticist/biochemist.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.