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(September 12, 2015 at 6:48 pm)Rational AKD Wrote: don't believe every meme you see on the internet. many of the 'recycled ideas' are propaganda and half truths. i'll tackle a few to show for example:
Zoroaster:
Born of a virgin and immaculate conception by a ray-- this one has some truth to it. but Zoroaster still needed a human father and this ray was Zoroaster's spirit being infused. so the virgin part is still wrong.
Baptized in a river-- no reference for this attributed to him. he received a revelation from an archangel on the banks of a river, then crosses it... that's the closest reference.
Astounded men with his wisdom-- he had a dispute with the magi at age seven. the magi plotted against him having him imprisoned accusing him of necromancy. he was freed when he healed the King's favorite horse by making its legs grow back. Zoroaster showed he was a miracle prodigy, Jesus showed he was a prodigy in interpreting scripture. vaguely similar yet very different.
Tempted in the wilderness by the devil-- kind of... he was tempted by a demon sent by Ahriman (who would be the functional equivalent to the devil).
Began ministry at age 30-- this one is true, but it's not a significant similarity. in those societies, 30 was seen as a becoming of age to which people would be trusted in their ministries. it's like pointing out two people moved out of their parent's place by age 18.
Cast out demons-- he had abilities to drive out pestilence, witches, sorcerers, and demons. but not the same way Jesus cast them out of someone's body.
Restored sight to a blind man-- the only source for this is a document dated to the tenth century AD. he dropped juice from a plant into the man's eyes.
Taught about Heaven and Hell-- true, but not significant. it would be easy to come up with these concepts from the assumption people get what they deserve.
Revealed mysteries...-- some similarities, and some differences. the resurrection would be would be when Zoroaster taught after judgment the 'dead will rise up' and they will 'not aging, not rotting, not decaying, and not dying.' seems like resurrection, but described in negatives. as for salvation, they had a concept of salvation by works alone. there was no place for repentance or pardon. no doctrine of atonement.
Sacred cup or grail-- no source for this. but the concept of the 'holy grail' is a product of medieval legend rather than scripture anyway.
Was slain-- yes he was. but there's no significance to this. there are different iterations which include him being killed by lightning or a wizard or priest. but none of the stories have any significant similarities to Jesus.
religion had eucharist-- not to any source. they may have had communal meals like any religion, but without atonement they couldn't have had the same kind of eucharist Christians have.
He was 'the word'-- not by any found sources.
Second coming-- has some truth. but whether this second coming is Zoroaster himself is up for interpretation. many interpret it as a line of Zoroaster rather than Zoroaster himself. a vague doctrine of a future redeemer appears in texts dated as early as 400's BC. but only texts dated 9th century AD have the words 'virgin born' in them. and they report impregnation by virgin women bathing in a lake in Iran. apparently Zoroaster's sperm is preserved in a lake somewhere.
Attis:
Born December 25 from a virgin-- first, the December 25th thing is not important. it's not the actual date Jesus was born, rather Pagan tradition being brought into Christian tradition by converts. it would be a popular day for significant events as it is the winter solstice so I won't repeat this one. as for the virgin part, stories mention he's conceived by Zeus. not virgin born.
Savior slain for mankind-- Attis was never recognized as a savior. there was no symbology for his death.
His body was eaten as bread-- there are depictions of a meal, but it's not clear what they ate and drank. though it was not said it had symbolic significance.
Divine son and father-- ok... he was a son of Zeus, but was never called a divine son. and he wasn't a father. though Jesus never had children of his own either.
Was crucified on black Friday on a tree-- he died under a tree, but was not crucified under it. no reference states it happened on Friday.
Blood from the crucifixion rained down and redeemed the earth-- there was blood... but all it did was make flowers. a rather loose interpretation of redeeming the earth.
Descended into the underworld-- true, but Jesus didn't do this.
After 3 days was resurrected-- this one requires explanation. in one story, he was at a wedding getting married. Agdistis shows up and drives everyone insane and the bride dies. Attis gets upsets and falls under a pine tree and emasculates himself and dies. Agdistis pleads with Zeus to bring him back. Zeus decides to minimally oblige her request and makes it so his body doesn't decay, his hair continues to grow, and his little finger moves. in another version you have a similar story but only flowers grow where he died and turns into a pine tree. in another, the king kills attus and hides the body and it is never found. any iterations that include a resurrection are dated after Christianity.
Mithra:
Born from a virgin-- does a rock count?
12 Disciples-- no confirming source of this.
Performed miracles-- he performed many actions that proved he was a deity. so what?
Died for 3 days and was resurrected-- there are no records of Mithra dying, and he most likely didn't.
Worshiped on Sunday-- in the Roman version, but there is no evidence of the Persian version having this.
Dianysus:
Born of a virgin-- was conceived by Zeus in the form of a lightning bolt.
King of kings, alpha and omega-- that would be Zeus...
Died and was resurrected-- persecuted by Lycurgus and descended into the Alcyonian Sea. no resurrection.
Horus:
Born of a virgin-- nope. he was born of Isis and Osiris. there are several intercourse depictions of this. many would say in defense that in the Greek iteration Isis is worshiped as the holy virgin. but then again she doesn't conceive Horus in that iteration.
Star in the east adored by 3 kings-- not confirmed in any source. and Jesus had 3 wise men or magi at his birth. not kings.
Child teacher prodigy-- not confirmed in any source.
Baptized-- no.
Had 12 disciples and one walked on water-- sources mention only 4. no mentioning of walking on water.
Known by 'the light' and 'Anointed son.'-- not confirmed in any source.
Crucified and Resurrected-- there is no record of him ever dying. the closest depiction of this is when he merges with the sun god and he 'dies' every morning and is 'born' every morning. but that doesn't really resemble Jesus' death and resurrection.
Enemy Set, who represented darkness or night-- sure... how does this resemble Jesus' story?
that will do for now, I think I missed 2 of them. just take this conspiracy stuff with a grain of salt at least.
Thank you for this. There are many, many traceable elements in which the Hebrew and Greek mythologies were "blended" to form Christianity, but most of the above are bunkum, or at least highly questionable.
If we are going to be critical of the Christian traditions (and we should, Christian or atheist alike), then we should at least base it on the most solid information available, and not just repeat things without checking them. I knew most of the above, but learned a couple of things, and have been reading more on it, since.
Thank you for the correction, again. Three Skeptic Points to you.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
