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Deuteronomy 22:28-29
#46
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29
(September 22, 2015 at 2:20 am)Rational AKD Wrote: yes... he made new laws that set them apart. most of them weren't really that foreign. but as I said, you can't just reform all their social concepts. moreover, I find it funny that you think our social concepts are the epitome of social standards... it's not like women were treated like animals. they simply had a role of raising a household... something that has been accepted all throughout history up until very recently. and even today there are women who just want to be full time moms, despite society pressuring them otherwise.

Yes, you can reform all their social concepts when you are GOD giving commands to the Chosen People. The only people who were powerless to reform all their social concepts were their priests.

If you own it, get money for transferring it to another, get to decide what happens to it, and can force it to obey you, then it is indeed "like animals"... be it slaves or women we're talking about.

Yes, women can still choose the role of raising a household. I'm glad for those that do (my own mother did, until my sibs and I were all old enough to take care of ourselves at home without her, and only then did she go off to graduate school), as I am glad for those that don't, but more importantly I'm glad that those who don't get that option. And I don't think our social standards are "the epitome of" social standards, as I think there are many areas in which we need to improve. What I'm certain of, however, is that the modern standards are superior in every way to the culture enshrined in scripture by Bronze/Iron Age tribal sheepherder-warrior semi-nomads' priests!

(September 22, 2015 at 2:20 am)Rational AKD Wrote:
TheRocketSurgeon Wrote:1) Thou shalt not own other human beings, nor tolerate other human beings to be property of anyone in thy land.
can you define property for me? does ownership rights by contract count?

Sure.

property [prop-er-tee] noun

1. that which a person owns; the possession or possessions of a particular owner:

4. ownership; right of possession, enjoyment, or disposal of anything, especially of something tangible:

5. something at the disposal of a person, a group of persons, or the community or public:

(And yes, human contracts would count, if the person is to be considered your property or possession. I can't see how you'd even think they'd be different.)

(September 22, 2015 at 2:20 am)Rational AKD Wrote:


the bible pretty much covered all scenarios of sexual immorality... not just virgin women. I mean, adultery is spoken of right?

No, it "pretty much" missed a whole bunch of scenarios of sexual immorality, which is odd given that they felt the need to spell out "don't have sex with animals" but didn't mention "don't have sex with children or anyone who cannot freely agree to have sex with you".

Adultery gets back to my point about property. The Old Testament really only talks about adultery in terms of the female, who is considered the property of the male, and thus if she sleeps with another man, she has violated the husband's ownership rights (and must die for this!).

(September 22, 2015 at 2:20 am)Rational AKD Wrote:


what exactly constitutes 'harm'? what is the limit of discipline? by word nor threat nor action? so no threatening spankings? or spanking a child?

Even our society has not worked out the bright lines of behavior on this question, but that's hardly a problem for a Commandment. Let's look at the most obvious: Thou shalt not kill. Does this commandment require me to be a conscientious objector, as some claim? Does this require that I object to the Death Penalty, as Catholics claim? Does this mean I must "turn the other cheek" and allow someone to kill me rather than shoot them first? Does this include non-meat animals? We could go on with "when to kill" for several paragraphs. However, the general understanding of "do not commit murder" is the default understanding of that commandment. Likewise, we would say that the commandment I have described prohibits abuse of children, a standard which may not be brightly defined but is easily understood in concept-- and which conflicts directly with the verses in the Old Testament which say that a child could be legally murdered by his parents for talking back to them.

(September 22, 2015 at 2:20 am)Rational AKD Wrote:
TheRocketSurgeon Wrote:4) Thou shalt cease and desist with all blood sacrifices in my name, for blood is only there to carry thine air through thine body, which I have appointed for thee, and the spilling of blood for any cause but that thou mayst eat is not pleasing, nay it is an abomination in my sight.
what is up with this?

Simple. No more "Blood for the Blood God." Sheep blood is not magical, unless you're a Bronze Age tribal sheepherder, and the Creator of the universe would likely have known that. Bronze Age priests, not so much.

(September 22, 2015 at 2:20 am)Rational AKD Wrote:
TheRocketSurgeon Wrote:5) Thou shalt keep to mine commandments, in covenant which thou hast chosen, but thou shalt not harm nor treat unfairly those who are not in mine covenant, for they too are my children; as keepers of the covenant, thou shalt be fair and equitable in all thine doings.
and this?

Simple. No bigotry, not genocide of your neighboring tribes, and no treating your "Chosen People" selves as superior to other nations or peoples.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost

I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.

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Messages In This Thread
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Hungry Hungry Hippo - September 21, 2015 at 4:03 am
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by robvalue - September 21, 2015 at 4:08 am
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Reforged - September 21, 2015 at 4:15 am
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Wyrd of Gawd - September 21, 2015 at 7:50 pm
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by robvalue - September 21, 2015 at 4:18 am
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 21, 2015 at 4:33 am
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by abaris - September 21, 2015 at 10:07 am
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Mermaid - September 21, 2015 at 8:00 am
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by BlackBird - September 21, 2015 at 8:44 am
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by vorlon13 - September 21, 2015 at 9:49 am
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by robvalue - September 21, 2015 at 10:29 am
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 21, 2015 at 1:26 pm
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by drfuzzy - September 21, 2015 at 10:42 am
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by robvalue - September 21, 2015 at 10:45 am
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Minimalist - September 21, 2015 at 1:33 pm
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by abaris - September 21, 2015 at 2:05 pm
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Chad32 - September 21, 2015 at 2:11 pm
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by robvalue - September 21, 2015 at 2:16 pm
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Chad32 - September 21, 2015 at 2:20 pm
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Minimalist - September 21, 2015 at 3:13 pm
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Godschild - September 21, 2015 at 3:37 pm
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Reforged - September 21, 2015 at 9:32 pm
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Minimalist - September 21, 2015 at 3:38 pm
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by drfuzzy - September 21, 2015 at 4:20 pm
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Wyrd of Gawd - September 21, 2015 at 8:01 pm
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Rational AKD - September 21, 2015 at 6:03 pm
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Wyrd of Gawd - September 21, 2015 at 8:03 pm
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Rational AKD - September 22, 2015 at 12:11 am
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Hungry Hungry Hippo - September 21, 2015 at 10:12 pm
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by The Grand Nudger - September 21, 2015 at 6:06 pm
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Rational AKD - September 21, 2015 at 6:21 pm
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Spooky - September 21, 2015 at 6:53 pm
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Rational AKD - September 21, 2015 at 7:44 pm
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Spooky - September 21, 2015 at 7:46 pm
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Rational AKD - September 21, 2015 at 7:55 pm
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Spooky - September 21, 2015 at 8:16 pm
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 21, 2015 at 8:57 pm
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Spooky - September 21, 2015 at 9:24 pm
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 21, 2015 at 9:27 pm
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Cecelia - September 21, 2015 at 10:39 pm
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Rational AKD - September 22, 2015 at 12:33 am
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 22, 2015 at 12:55 am
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Rational AKD - September 22, 2015 at 2:20 am
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 22, 2015 at 3:18 am
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Chad32 - September 23, 2015 at 11:46 am
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by The Grand Nudger - September 22, 2015 at 2:34 am
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Hungry Hungry Hippo - September 22, 2015 at 3:06 am
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by robvalue - September 22, 2015 at 3:21 am
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Hungry Hungry Hippo - September 22, 2015 at 3:29 am
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Javaman - September 22, 2015 at 3:39 am
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by robvalue - September 22, 2015 at 3:43 am
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 22, 2015 at 3:51 am
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by robvalue - September 22, 2015 at 4:05 am
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Drich - September 23, 2015 at 11:32 am
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Wyrd of Gawd - September 23, 2015 at 11:59 am
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Cecelia - September 23, 2015 at 8:14 pm
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by Chad32 - September 23, 2015 at 8:56 pm
RE: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 - by TheRocketSurgeon - September 23, 2015 at 11:33 pm



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