RE: How it was forged.
September 26, 2015 at 7:47 pm
(This post was last modified: September 26, 2015 at 7:53 pm by WinterHold.)
MrNoMorePropaganda
It is is easy; as a matter in fact, it only requires opening up and reading, and that's it.
Then again I should point out to a mistake in your statement; making chess "forbidden" is an opinion of a scholar, there wasn't a single Hadith referring to the game.
The rest of your statement after the "chess", is actually wrong. The law "or as you call it sharia" is mentioned in the Quran, so from it one can actually know all the pillars of the law; yet how to practice the act itself can be fetched from the inherited habits.
As all nations in this world, all do keep a certain heritage (you can take the red Indians as an example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_religion ), as Islam originated in Mecca & Madina, the natives there inherit the prayer & the other topics of the "law". Their practices can be validated against the Quran, and then one would practice without fear of forgery.
Though if you follow the Hadith, you actually get a different style of prayer (like the Shia way of prayer).
And then again, the Hadith collections are a minefield. Nobody said you wouldn't find something "true" in there as it is a collection of "talks & tales"; but the problem is (as my topic clearly said), was the "people who lied and told false tales to mutate the religion depending on their needs".
This is off topic, but to answer some points :
-The pharaoh was the one who inflicted those acts; not God. God was only the architect of fate that brought pharaoh as leader when those people existed too.
-This life was always meant to be a testing ground for humanity against Satan. In other words; whom would they obey ? God, or Satan ?
-As the pharaoh was obeying Satan, it was expected from him to do so. Yet, are the people of Moses (including Moses himself) would obey God or Satan ?
It was a mere test.
Eventually, the real life of which God would "judge humanity directly", then lead them to either paradise or Hell, is known as "the afterlife", there, the pharaoh and his armies, along with Moses and his people, along with me & you, would stand still & recall what we did in this life, then God gives us his sentence.
There, the test ends. Actually, that's the main point -if not the main & only objective too- of the Quran.
Your chronological order of the verses is wrong.
This verse happened before 20:86 :
Sura 20 : Verse 78
"Then the Pharaoh followed them with his army, but the sea overpowered and engulfed them."
Hence, it's the same sura..make sure to go back a few pages/verses to know how the story went from the beginning.
Actually God did give the people of Moses their victory. Which is why Moses was angry on his people.
This is not paradise. It's a testing ground where humans see what awaits them if God wasn't in control. And even though God still brings the rain, makes the sun shine, blossoms the flowers & comforts us with hours of sleeping -breaks from this heavy test-, it is still grim..
The Quran actually, orders Muslims to free slaves. The term "Molk Yameen" is about housing a person who doesn't have any kind of other home or source of income.
Being that, nothing obligates to live a slave's life; they are in the rank of a refugee. Instead of putting them in "camps", house them with a Muslim family, and with that they turn into "Molk Yameen" : they get a home, a steady source of income.
As for slaves, please don't ignore this command from the Quran :
Sura 90 : Verse 13
(Verse 11) Yet he has not assaulted the steep;
(Verse 12) And what will explain to thee the path that is steep?-
(Verse 13) (It is) to free a slave,
Though the Hadiths, did indeed forge & mutate to support "slavery" even though the Quran said the above..Of course MrNoMorePropaganda as I said in my topic, they couldn't bear a book that orders them to free slaves. So they would turn "Molk Yameen" into "Abd", indeed. Then throw it on Mohammed and say : when he said Molk Yameen, he meant "Abd".
Sorry the Quran forbids me from doing so.. never been into slavery anyways.
Hey, after all, a slave can't take slaves, right ? aren't we all slaves under the fat cats who have the 50% of the world's wealth ? http://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/20...n-poorest/
But yeah, the Quran is the one that encourages slavery..Ironic ain't it ? in terms of research though, not a single verse in the Quran orders you to take slaves; be my guest & search.
Though if you come back with a "Molk Yameen" verse, remember what I said above, though I don't mind telling the difference again between THAT & SLAVERY. Unless you consider housing a poor individual with your family as slavery.
Quote:Why couldn't the Quran be easy like the Bible? Oh well. Completely forgot you don't like Hadiths, and I have to agree with you that Hadiths are not a good source of information - for the most part (they contain some funny/curious things, like Muhammad expressing his dislike of Chess).
However, not using Hadith does create all sorts of problems. How do you know to pray five times a day? Most of the details for the story of Muhammad's Night Journey (through the seven heavens) come from the Hadith.
You need the Hadith to get the specifics of Salat and for the Sharia. How would you properly follow the Sunnah without any Hadith? Even if one is not Sunni, and either Ibadi or Shia, you would still see Muhammad as an example and use their Hadith collections to follow his example.
It is is easy; as a matter in fact, it only requires opening up and reading, and that's it.
Then again I should point out to a mistake in your statement; making chess "forbidden" is an opinion of a scholar, there wasn't a single Hadith referring to the game.
The rest of your statement after the "chess", is actually wrong. The law "or as you call it sharia" is mentioned in the Quran, so from it one can actually know all the pillars of the law; yet how to practice the act itself can be fetched from the inherited habits.
As all nations in this world, all do keep a certain heritage (you can take the red Indians as an example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_religion ), as Islam originated in Mecca & Madina, the natives there inherit the prayer & the other topics of the "law". Their practices can be validated against the Quran, and then one would practice without fear of forgery.
Though if you follow the Hadith, you actually get a different style of prayer (like the Shia way of prayer).
And then again, the Hadith collections are a minefield. Nobody said you wouldn't find something "true" in there as it is a collection of "talks & tales"; but the problem is (as my topic clearly said), was the "people who lied and told false tales to mutate the religion depending on their needs".
Quote:Given all of the disproportionate suffering Allah inflicted on innocent Egyptians (e.g. children), who may not have necessarily agreed with the Pharaoh, I probably would have disobeyed Allah too and pointed out the unfairness. Why didn't Allah simply do a Quran 13:13 on the Pharaoh or the royal palace instead of killing powerless Egyptians? It would have been so much simpler.
Quran 13:13 Nay, thunder repeateth His praises, and so do the angels, with awe: He flingeth the loud-voiced thunder-bolts, and therewith He striketh whomsoever He will.. yet these (are the men) who (dare to) dispute about Allah, with the strength of His power (supreme)!
This is off topic, but to answer some points :
-The pharaoh was the one who inflicted those acts; not God. God was only the architect of fate that brought pharaoh as leader when those people existed too.
-This life was always meant to be a testing ground for humanity against Satan. In other words; whom would they obey ? God, or Satan ?
-As the pharaoh was obeying Satan, it was expected from him to do so. Yet, are the people of Moses (including Moses himself) would obey God or Satan ?
It was a mere test.
Eventually, the real life of which God would "judge humanity directly", then lead them to either paradise or Hell, is known as "the afterlife", there, the pharaoh and his armies, along with Moses and his people, along with me & you, would stand still & recall what we did in this life, then God gives us his sentence.
There, the test ends. Actually, that's the main point -if not the main & only objective too- of the Quran.
Quote:Quran 20:86 So Moses returned to his people in a state of indignation and sorrow. He said: "O my people! did not your Lord make a handsome promise to you? Did then the promise seem to you long (in coming)? Or did ye desire that Wrath should descend from your Lord on you, and so ye broke your promise to me?"
Your chronological order of the verses is wrong.
This verse happened before 20:86 :
Sura 20 : Verse 78
"Then the Pharaoh followed them with his army, but the sea overpowered and engulfed them."
Hence, it's the same sura..make sure to go back a few pages/verses to know how the story went from the beginning.
Actually God did give the people of Moses their victory. Which is why Moses was angry on his people.
Quote:If I was Allah, I would have prevented them from becoming slaves in the first place. That way, no innocent Egyptians get killed and nobody gets their free will taken away. I would be a deity that doesn't just assert that humans get free will; I would defend it too. So when people are taken as slaves I would condemn the slave masters.
This is not paradise. It's a testing ground where humans see what awaits them if God wasn't in control. And even though God still brings the rain, makes the sun shine, blossoms the flowers & comforts us with hours of sleeping -breaks from this heavy test-, it is still grim..
Quote:I do find it ironic that Allah didn't like the followers of Moses being kept as slaves and gives details in the Quran on keeping slaves. Why the double standard? Like in Muhammad's day, everyone in Pharaoh's day was taking slaves.
There are plenty of Iyaht on the subject of slavery in the Quran. You can say "the Quran had specific rules for how slaves to be treated" or how the freeing of slaves is a great act, etc. And that's fine, but would you keep a slave if given the chance? If not, why not?
The Quran actually, orders Muslims to free slaves. The term "Molk Yameen" is about housing a person who doesn't have any kind of other home or source of income.
Being that, nothing obligates to live a slave's life; they are in the rank of a refugee. Instead of putting them in "camps", house them with a Muslim family, and with that they turn into "Molk Yameen" : they get a home, a steady source of income.
As for slaves, please don't ignore this command from the Quran :
Sura 90 : Verse 13
(Verse 11) Yet he has not assaulted the steep;
(Verse 12) And what will explain to thee the path that is steep?-
(Verse 13) (It is) to free a slave,
Though the Hadiths, did indeed forge & mutate to support "slavery" even though the Quran said the above..Of course MrNoMorePropaganda as I said in my topic, they couldn't bear a book that orders them to free slaves. So they would turn "Molk Yameen" into "Abd", indeed. Then throw it on Mohammed and say : when he said Molk Yameen, he meant "Abd".
Quote:I'm sure if you went to the Yemen and abducted some Akhdam for yourself, nobody, besides the immediate family, would care. Or, if people of colour aren't your thing, how about some Zabaleen? The Fascist Egyptian government has treated the Zabaleen terribly so maybe you can give them a better life as a slave? For example, they took away all of their pigs and used Swine Flu as the excuse. And then there was chaos, because it turns out pigs are not actually that bad, or at least not as bad as the Quran claims they are.
So what's stopping you? The Quran allows you take slaves after all. I'm sure it's your ability to empathize that's telling you that slavery is wrong.
Sorry the Quran forbids me from doing so.. never been into slavery anyways.
Hey, after all, a slave can't take slaves, right ? aren't we all slaves under the fat cats who have the 50% of the world's wealth ? http://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/20...n-poorest/
But yeah, the Quran is the one that encourages slavery..Ironic ain't it ? in terms of research though, not a single verse in the Quran orders you to take slaves; be my guest & search.
Though if you come back with a "Molk Yameen" verse, remember what I said above, though I don't mind telling the difference again between THAT & SLAVERY. Unless you consider housing a poor individual with your family as slavery.
